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Thread: Noob from Indiana

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    Noob from Indiana

    I am from the Terre Haute area and hoping to learn better long distance reloading. I just put a Savage 12 LRP 6.5 creedmore in layaway while i was buying a eotech 512 for my AR. I have been reloading for about 6+ years and still consider myself a novice. I have been using poor to marginal equipment (lee 4 hole turret) the entire time i have been loading and is fine for hunting and plinking but not going to reach 1k yards consistent. I currently load for 9mm, .223, .308, .243, 38 special, and 500 S&W mag. Have the new Lyman brass smith all american turret on backorder. Now i need to figure out the rest of the good equipment i need for precision such as neck turner, concentricity gauges, ect... Not looking to break the bank but i do expect to spend over 700 for what i need. But the information and how tos is priceless and probably what i need most.

  2. #2
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    Jun 2018
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    Here is my loading equipment shopping list i already have the basic equipment plus a rcbs chargemaster lite and have the new lyman brass smith all american 8 turret on order to replace my lee 4 hole turret


    Hornady bullet comparator set

    Hornady head space gauge 5 bushing set

    Hornady overall length gauge

    Hornady ammo concetricity tool

    K&M micro adjust neck turner set with pilot and inside cut pilot

    Lyman universal case prep kit

    Lyman flash hole uniformer

    Whidden gunworks click adjustable sizer bushing 2 die set


    Then for the loads i plan to start with

    Starline 6.5 creedmoor small primer pocket brass

    Sierre matchkings 142 gr

    Cci benchrest small rifle primers

    Imr4350 powder


    Is there anything im missing or should change?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    CA
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    694
    Start with Lapua brass and a single stage press.

    If you don't like the run-out/concentricity try a Lee Collet Die for neck sizing and follow the instructions.

    You have a lot of stuff listed for brass prep. If you start with Lapua brass most of if will not be needed. Some makes of brass will never be great brass no matter how much you play with it

    See my comments inserted below:

    "Hornady bullet comparator set

    Hornady head space gauge 5 bushing set

    Hornady overall length gauge

    Hornady ammo concentricity tool - (This tool might drive you nuts. Be sure to test the unfired brass to the fired brass to your loaded rounds to see where the problem was introduced. Once again try a Lee Collect die)

    K&M micro adjust neck turner set with pilot and inside cut pilot - (You don't need to turns necks and even if you do you do, you not need the inside cut pilot)

    Lyman universal case prep kit

    Lyman flash hole uniformer - (You will not need this with Lapua brass)

    Whidden gunworks click adjustable sizer bushing 2 die set - (I was not impressed with their quality. I would recommend a Forester Micrometer Seater Die and a Lee Collet Die. Although neck bushing dies have their place, sometimes they have their problems)
    ,
    Then for the loads i plan to start with

    Starline 6.5 creedmoor small primer pocket brass - (Get Lapua brass)

    Sierre matchkings 142 gr

    Cci benchrest small rifle primers

    Imr4350 powder"
    Last edited by John S; 06-05-2018 at 04:35 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    washington.........STATE that is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peebles24 View Post
    Here is my loading equipment shopping list i already have the basic equipment plus a rcbs chargemaster lite and have the new lyman brass smith all american 8 turret on order to replace my lee 4 hole turret


    Hornady bullet comparator set

    Hornady head space gauge 5 bushing set

    Hornady overall length gauge

    Hornady ammo concetricity tool

    K&M micro adjust neck turner set with pilot and inside cut pilot

    Lyman universal case prep kit

    Lyman flash hole uniformer

    Whidden gunworks click adjustable sizer bushing 2 die set


    Then for the loads i plan to start with

    Starline 6.5 creedmoor small primer pocket brass

    Sierre matchkings 142 gr

    Cci benchrest small rifle primers

    Imr4350 powder


    Is there anything im missing or should change?

    HOKay..... so this is gonna' fly in the face of everyone and averything on the entire innertube.......but take it as I mean it, from one who owns drawers and cupboards and shelves, nay ROOMS full of fancy-schmancy gear.

    My OPINION will be completely different than ever'one eltses.

    SAVE your money on the tools. Even the dies. Ain't one of them gonna' help you shoot gooder.

    Seriously.

    And I'm a die freak...... The Whidden dies are good, you will need them some day, just NOT FOR THESE GUNS.

    And here's why.

    I'm guessing these are all factory rifles.

    Factory guns are factory guns are factory guns.

    I say again factory guns are factory guns.

    They WILL NEVER and CAN NEVER shoot with a custom barrel/chamber, even if you luck into a really good one the neck will be too big.


    And turning necks for a gun that's already too big-nekkid is going backwards.

    I know, I know...... I heard it all too. I'm old, I SPENT the money on other people's advice about "cleaning up necks" for "more consistent neck tension" and blahh . . . . . blahhh . . . . . . blahhhh..........


    My problem is, I've lived where I could shoot right out the reloading room window for 35yrs. I Test Stuff.

    The REASON for "tight necks" is to provide a guiding means as the bullet enters the bore, a HeLLLACIOus experience under 600 actual pounds of raging swirling pressure. "60,000psi" doesn't mean much to us laymen, but try pushing a bullet with a stick to find out how much 600lb of pressure is.

    The REASON for custom chambers is to provide you with a neck tight enough TO TURN TO for a nice fit....

    So, strike #1, the neck is too large for realio-trulio accuracy.

    Strike #2, because of this a fitted custom die won't help you like it will with a custom barrel.

    And STEERIKE 3#..... when you've fired the factory gun enough to realize it aint ever gonna' shoot GOOD, the barrel will be wore out. And you'll be left holding a custom die that's now a fishing weight.


    Sooo, In My Opinion..... the answer with factory guns is to get an arbor press and some Wilson Hand dies, or a "neck-size-only die" from say Redding (it doesn't matter a WHIT who it is.... ) and just shoot moderate loads and neck size ONLY. Then, you wanna get creative you can make some 308 or even 243 brass from 30-06 or 270 cases and you can make some fitteder necks. Probably won't even have to turn 'em and IF YOU DO a cheapo RCBS turner will fill the bill juuust fine.

    In actual fact.....as stupid as this sounds...... I would spend some of that money on a really good electronic scale. One that will weigh down to the single kernel of powder. And a hunner dollar Shooting Chrony. Spend your time and shoot up those barrels learning to achieve CONSISTENCY and your accuracy will follow.

    If you hear a word I'm saying...... if by some chance you DO start using Neck dies, remember to GREASE YOUR BOLT LUGS every 25 rds.

    ALWAYS!

    Be Safe

    Have Fun

    And I do mean well..... trying to save you money for your real passion of accuracy here. It sucks to run out of funds JUUSSST as your regimen is showing promise.



    BTDT


    GTTS



    al

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    The rifle is a savage lrp and yes it is a factory barrel currently but will eventually get a criterion or shilen.

    You are right i am going over board for a factory barrel, just thought that learning the proper loading principles while i shoot out the factory barrel would be a good idea.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peebles24 View Post
    The rifle is a savage lrp and yes it is a factory barrel currently but will eventually get a criterion or shilen.

    You are right i am going over board for a factory barrel, just thought that learning the proper loading principles while i shoot out the factory barrel would be a good idea.
    Please reread, carefully. Somehow I'm not being clear.

  7. #7
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    And I have LOTS of fishing weights!

  8. #8
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    OK, I'm back at the computer. I'll try to be more clear.

    What I'm trying to say is, having purchased the tools you're proposing to purchase I no longer use them. I found that setting seating lengths via jamset it's just way easier to use the cartridge itself as a tool with which to find jamset.

    And having all sorts of tools too establish datum or shoulder setback doesn't help at all when the (factory) dies don't fit the (factory) chamber and in ANY case the reason for my runout is because I'm squinching the brass in all directions because of these misfits.

    Runout comes from ONE source. The brass blows out to fill the overlarge factory chamber, then you squeeze it down with an oversmall die and it crinkles down crookedy. The fitted Whidden die WOULD fix this everywhere but the neck...... but that big old fatty neckhole in the chamber still has to be squeezed down 6-8 thou to hold a bullet. Which means your neck runout will still be bad. And your necks will split and break from the extra work, failing while the case is still good. Another, cheaper way to do this is just to neck-size-only and forego the Whidden die

    For now.

    Now, when you get your NEW barrel and NEW chamber, I'll suggest you buy a reamer AND a die..... or have your gunsmith at least cut a chamber with a tighter neck. I any case, with this smaller necked chamber you can now use the Whidden die to good effect and SAVE money by saving your brass.


    And I'm saying there's more to learning "proper reloading principles" than forevermore FIGHTING with this mismatch

  9. #9
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    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tennessee
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    I don't know much about long range shooting but Al is absolutely correct. Of course you may get that one in a billion rifle that shoots best using all those trinkets but your money will be better spent on a custom rifle if you plan to win. Yep, I know what you're thinking because we've all been there...and it's flawed. You will probably continue along the path you're on but some day, come back and read this thread. I suppose what I'm actually saying here is to cry once instead of several times.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    317
    Case manufacture rarely results in a neck that is uniform in thickness all around.

    Nothing you can do with dies will alter this.

    And while there are ways to form cases with thicker necks that can THEN be cut to fit an otherwise sloppy chamber it is easier to make a 'tight neck' chamber that requires neck turning of factory cases.
    This provides a way to use commercial cases and uniform the neck thickness and have them fit correctly in the smaller neck of the chamber.

    When EVERYTHING else is as good as you can get this starts to matter.

    My long range varmint rifle is a Panda action.
    My barrels are tight neck chambers.

    Tight enough a factory round will not fit.
    This is on purpose to prevent a round that is not turned from being fired.

    There would not be enough room for a factory neck to expand for safe bullet release,
    so the chamber is designed to prevent such a round from entering.

    I use around .0015 in. of neck clearance on loaded neck turned shells.

    I measure 100% of the shells for wall thickness after turning all the way around.
    A 0.0001 indicator against a rod that goes in the case mouth. And not particularly tightly by any means.
    It is then gently spun 360 degrees.

    If the needle moves the shell is put in a separate pile for less critical shots at shorter ranges.

    When sorting shells before turning I separate them into groups by 0.0005 in of neck wall variation around the shell.
    Smaller variation means the case walls are also more uniform.
    I measured enough wall thicknesses all the way around (and in multiple depths in the shell) to set the 0.0005 as the 'bin' size for grouping.


    The only down side is that on groundhog sized targets out to at lest 440 yards I only need 1 shot per target.
    I also get to hear a farmer looking through my Kowa spotting scope yell "You got him! You got him" when the
    groundhog comes apart' 440 yards away.
    More than one farmer has called me when he has a problem in his fields.
    Many have watched numerous other hunters try to shoot them, and the groundhogs will dive at the silhouette of a human of hundreds of yards away.

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