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Thread: Feedback From The Tunnel

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunermi View Post
    Gene, currently shooting a BAT DS with a .262 neck and
    turning brass to ,0081. I could turn the brass to .0085 for the
    first pass and the then turn the second pass to the .0081
    for a predetermined distance in order to create a step for
    slip neck seating. What neck bushing if any are you using
    for the brass?

    Tunermi

    That should work. You don't use a neck sizing bushing at all. Sorry I haven't answered sooner but I'm leaving for Phoenix in a few hours and have been busy getting everything ready to go. If you have any problems we can get back to it next week. Later,

    Gene Beggs

  2. #242
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    I won't disagree wit Gene's advice on tuning the LOAD but, bottom line is, I don't think tuners change how you should go about finding the best load in your barrel. Do whatever yields best results and use the tuner to keep it in tune from there.

    I typically use some amount of jam with my loads and a fair amount of neck tension. I load to the point where a bullet will stick in the rifling, back it off to where it no longer sticks, then work backward from there. JM2CW.

    As far as tuners go, I think the important thing is to start with your best tune/load. Tuners may well improve a gun/load's potential but they are really more about maintaining peak tune than they are about reaching it...at least in the context of this thread. You can fine tune for the condition easier wit a tuner than without, IMO, though. That assumes very good conditions.

    As a rule, I don't move the tuner when conditions and my flag reading ability(or lack of) are of more value than tune. In all honesty, that is far more often than not.

    I hope those at the Cactus have a great time and have a great match!

  3. #243
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    Late post!

    I'm fairly sure that a rifle that shoots well at 100 yds will normally shoot well at 200 yds. On the other hand, I've had barrels (2 or 3) that shot extremely well at 200 and were somewhat worthless at 100. I'm talking smaller groups at 200 than you could shoot at 100 given wind considerations. For example.... .300 at 200 and .325 at 100.

  4. #244
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    Now with Beggs back from the Cactus and a good finish he can tell us how he tuned!


    .

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerrySharrett View Post
    Now with Beggs back from the Cactus and a good finish he can tell us how he tuned!


    .
    Gene did have a very successful Cactus. I have some of Red's 22 Red Russian brass. Red used Remington 6BR brass without flash holes. He was particular about his flash hole size. He also rebated the rims to 222 size. Gene was correct on turning the necks in 2 steps on the OD. He also shortened them about .125".

  6. #246
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    Back Home!

    [QUOTE=JerrySharrett;807490]Now with Beggs back from the Cactus and a good finish he can tell us how he tuned!


    Hi Jerry

    Yes, the Cactus match in Phoenix went well this year. I finished 6 in the LV grand and 19 in the 2 gun.
    There were 157 shooters. Conditions were very nice both days but we had a little sprinkle Sunday morning.

    I shot my original Hall rifle that Allan Hall and James Messer built for me in 1988. It has a Bruno taper Krieger 13.5 barrel chambered in 6 Beggs with a Beggs tuner. Scope is a Leu/Tucker 36.

    The following was the load and tune shot all the way through. Cleaned only after a yardage agg.

    Lapua 220 Russian brass, right out of the box, expanded to 6mm and neck turned to .011.8. No change to original 220 Russian body taper or shoulder angle. Flash holes and primer pockets were never touched.

    48 clicks (Jones measure) H-322. Wolf SRM primer.

    Scott Haywood 68 grain BT bullets seated 'just off' lands. Fairly light neck tension using .2650 carbide neck bushing in the Hornady FL sizing die.

    The tuner was set to zero for first match of LV 100. First test group in almost zero conditions was a little ragged with both vertical and horizontal. One mark adjustment 'in' and the second test group looked worse. Went back to zero and made one mark adjustment 'out' and next test group was much better but still a bit of vertical. One more mark 'out' (now two marks 'out' from zero) and the rifle shot a dot!

    Tuner position never moved more than four marks (two marks either side of zero) through both days of shooting. Morning lows were 57 to 60 degrees with afternoon highs of around 80. No changes were made to the load. Any adjustment when conditions called for it were made with the tuner.

    Later,

    Gene Beggs
    Last edited by Gene Beggs; 03-13-2018 at 08:57 PM.

  7. #247
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    Well done Gene, well done....actually quite remarkable, older rifle with non trendy action somewhat unique cartridge and powder, tuned with tuner only , and without practice to do that well within that field, There were a lot of guys who practice a lot, have the latest trick everything who were down in the weeds, while you sailed through. When I saw your name on the list and how high up it was I smiled broadly, and thought, ol' Gene still has a trick or two up his sleeve.
    Boyd

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyd Allen View Post
    Well done Gene, well done....actually quite remarkable, older rifle with non trendy action somewhat unique cartridge and powder, tuned with tuner only , and without practice to do that well within that field, There were a lot of guys who practice a lot, have the latest trick everything who were down in the weeds, while you sailed through. When I saw your name on the list and how high up it was I smiled broadly, and thought, ol' Gene still has a trick or two up his sleeve.
    Boyd

    Boyd,

    Thanks for the kind words. Yep, my thirty year old Hall sporter is still my favorite rifle. When I sit down behind it I know I'm in the company of an old friend.

    It's true, I don't practice; at least not outdoors but I shoot and experiment a fair amount in the tunnel. Contrary to what some say, there are things to be learned in a tunnel that are hard to see outdoors.

    Keep in touch and good shootin' !

    Gene Beggs

  9. #249
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    Way to go Gene! I was watching...there were several tuners at and near the top.

  10. #250
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    [QUOTE=Gene Beggs;807543]
    Quote Originally Posted by JerrySharrett View Post
    Now with Beggs back from the Cactus and a good finish he can tell us how he tuned!


    Hi Jerry

    Yes, the Cactus match in Phoenix went well this year. I finished 6 in the LV grand and 19 in the 2 gun.
    There were 157 shooters. Conditions were very nice both days but we had a little sprinkle Sunday morning.

    I shot my original Hall rifle that Allan Hall and James Messer built for me in 1988. It has a Bruno taper Krieger 13.5 barrel chambered in 6 Beggs with a Beggs tuner. Scope is a Leu/Tucker 36.

    The following was the load and tune shot all the way through. Cleaned only after a yardage agg.

    Lapua 220 Russian brass, right out of the box, expanded to 6mm and neck turned to .011.8. No change to original 220 Russian body taper or shoulder angle. Flash holes and primer pockets were never touched.

    48 clicks (Jones measure) H-322. Wolf SRM primer.

    Scott Haywood 68 grain BT bullets .....

    The tuner was set to zero for first match of LV 100. First test group in almost zero conditions was a little ragged with both vertical and horizontal. One mark adjustment 'in' and the second test group looked worse. Went back to zero and made one mark adjustment 'out' and next test group was much better but still a bit of vertical. One more mark 'out' (now two marks 'out' from zero) and the rifle shot a dot!

    Tuner position never moved more than four marks (two marks either side of zero) through both days of shooting. Morning lows were 57 to 60 degrees with afternoon highs of around 80. No changes were made to the load. Any adjustment when conditions called for it were made with the tuner.

    Later,

    Gene Beggs
    Great shooting Gene. Thanks.

    .

  11. #251
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Peoples Republic of California
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    13

    Red face First time tuner impressions

    I started reading Gene's thread a few weeks back (big mistake) and it peaked my interest.
    So I decide to thread my new HV barrel that I already had chucked up in the lathe waiting to be crowned for one of Mike's tuners.

    Right before the Cactus... (I like trying new stuff at the big matches, it's a sickness)

    1st impression: It does something!
    2nd impression: It's repeatable!
    3rd impression: It doesn't keep you from starting in the wrong condition (Can you fix that Mike?)

    Except for the 2 groups I started in a sucker (wrong) condition 1 at 100 & 1 @ 200 the HV shot well.
    Settled on the 31.5 mark on the tuner (@ 3/4 turn out on my rifle) based on the practice day,
    and only moved it once a half a click in to check during the match but went back to the 31.5.

    Also tried Gene's off the lands which didn't work on my LV (no tuner), still at jam,
    but really allowed the tuner to flatten out the vertical more readily on the HV at .030 off jam then at jam.

    Not nearly enough trigger time on it to make a definitive statement, but overall my initial reaction for someone like me who tunes to the barrel and then pre-loads for matches it is going to be a revelation.
    I think I will order another one to put on my new 30 BR barrel I am doing next month.

    Thanks for all the info, and I will keep you guys updated on what I find as I continue down the path.
    Greg

    PS: Finished 26th in the 2 Gun not up to my goals, but you can't shoot a couple of big ones and expect much more, so overall I wasn't to disappointed.

  12. #252
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    These stories never get old.
    Yes, it's that simple.

  13. #253
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    I know this is Gene's thread feed back from the Tunnel at any rate
    I thought i would offer this for what its worth may not be a lot
    I have been using a tuner for the past 4 years. In my experience you cant skip past your normal bullet seating depth work.
    Do that work up without the tuner then set the tuner
    Some trying one for the first time might skip this and incorrectly think the tuner is junk

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Singleton View Post
    I know this is Gene's thread feed back from the Tunnel at any rate
    I thought i would offer this for what its worth may not be a lot
    I have been using a tuner for the past 4 years. In my experience you cant skip past your normal bullet seating depth work.
    Do that work up without the tuner then set the tuner
    Some trying one for the first time might skip this and incorrectly think the tuner is junk
    IMO, IN CENTERFIRE the primary mission for a tuner should be to bring a BARREL into its optimum tune. I. E. Take the best load you have developed for that barrel, then using the tuner to see if it can be made to improve that setups performance. THEN, within a match see if you can use the tuner to stay in tune.

    Just randomly blundering along, using the tuner as an ADDIONAL ELEMENT of tuning you are simply adding to the confusion of getting to an optimum tune.

    IN RIMFIRE the mission of the tuner is completely different since the tuner is the ONLY component available, within a particular lot of ammo, to improve performance.

    Different thinking process for each!!


    .

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