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Thread: Velocity test with barrel being shortened 1" at a time

  1. #1
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    Velocity test with barrel being shortened 1" at a time

    posted 29 January 2018 17:03 Hide Post
    1. CCI STINGER 1545 FPS 0.6080 1.3968
    1543 FPS 0.6682 1.7784
    1558 FPS 0.7400 1.6696
    1546 FPS 0.8796 1.7560
    1539 FPS

    2. FIOCCHI ULTRASONIC 1272 FPS 0.5946 1.5954
    1239 FPS 0.5806 1.5268
    1259 FPS 0.9088 1.6456
    1294 FPS 0.6586 1.8978
    1262 FPS

    3. ELEY FORCE 1173 FPS 0.5338 1.3140
    1188 FPS 0.4906 1.0982
    1198 FPS 0.5276 1.2768
    1191 FPS 0.5476 1.1766
    1155 FPS

    4. CCI MINI MAG 1192 FPS 0.5454 1.1414
    1213 FPS 1.1400 1.7902
    1222 FPS 0.9944 1.9086
    1228 FPS 0.6502 1.7822
    1220 FPS

    5. SK STANDARD 1028 FPS 0.4446 1.3360
    1033 FPS 0.5716 1.4686
    1042 FPS 0.5280 1.0822
    1059 FPS 0.4196 0.9898
    1051 FPS

    6. ELEY SPORT 1015 FPS 0.7156 1.4130
    1081 FPS 0.7246 1.4260
    1084 FPS 0.4806 1.2700
    1047 FPS 0.5640 1.4052
    1099 FPS

    7. FIOCCHI SUBSONIC 1026 FPS 0.8764 1.7658
    1027 FPS 0.6894 1.9966
    1043 FPS 0.5572 1.4536
    1061 FPS 0.8574 1.4620
    1038 FPS

    8. ELEY CONTACT 1074 FPS 0.6510 1.2918
    1067 FPS 0.6198 1.3132
    1070 FPS 0.6756 1.6334
    1071 FPS 0.6672 1.3652
    1976 FPS

    9. LAPUA MIDAS PLUS 1045 FPS 0.5440 1.3748
    1055 FPS 0.5858 1.5414
    1084 FPS 0.5670 1.5556
    1084 FPS 0.4938 1.0080
    1111 FPS

    10. ELEY TENEX 1052 FPS 0.6104 1.2084
    1066 FPS 0.6814 1.4264
    1074 FPS 0.5412 1.2210
    1061 FPS 0.4982 1.1566
    1095 FPS

    These are the velocities after a further one inch was cut off.[/quote]

  2. #2
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    More details. What was original barrel length?

  3. #3
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    He is using a CZ452 and I believe the barrel length started AT 24.25"

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Butch,

    Could you please give a little more detail? I can't figure out what these numbers mean.

    Many have posted in the past that a rimfire burns all it's powder at about 17-18 inches. down the barrel, and the bullet coasts e.g. slows down. If this barrel was 24+ inches and they cut it one inch at a time this tells a very different story.

    Please provide what information you can. Thanks!

    TKH
    Tony, All I can provide is the rifle is a stock CZ452. The shooter is the owner of the Accurate Reloading forum and is a very wealthy person. Saeed is a very serious hunter around the World. Dwight Scott is his gunsmith. He knew the test needed to be from a variety of ammo and all the same lot for each type. The first number beside the ammo is the starting velocity of the full length factory barrel. After it is chronographed an inch was cut off and crowned and shot again. Each velocity in number descending is the velocity of the shorter barrel. I believe the bottom number under each type of ammo is after it reached 20.25" I think. Saeed wil be in Canada for a couple weeks, so the test is on hold until he returns.
    I will try to answer more of your questions if I can.

  5. #5
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    The two additional numbers after the muzzle velocity are the group sizes at 50 and 100yds respectively.
    The information was gleaned from the Accurate Reloading forum.

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob1949 View Post
    The two additional numbers after the muzzle velocity are the group sizes at 50 and 100yds respectively.
    The information was gleaned from the Accurate Reloading forum.

    Bob
    Yes Sir!

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    Accuracy?

    So how was the accuracy during these tests? Did it improve or was it a disaster?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred J View Post
    So how was the accuracy during these tests? Did it improve or was it a disaster?
    Remember the group sizes are 5-10 shot groups average. Each velocity is the average of 5-10 shot groups. Saeed is shooting 50 rounds for each type ammo for each inch that he is trimming. He is right in thinking that a lot of groups from the same lot of ammo is the only way to really have a good test. I believe he said that he would need 1800 rounds of each type ammo from the same lot for the test to be effective. I wish he had measured all of the groups.
    The CZ452 factory rifle is a good tincan shooter, but not a BR rifle.

  9. #9
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    So it would appear that velocity is increasing as the barrel gets shorter.

  10. #10
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    From the forum.



    posted Jan 16, 9:45 AM Hide Post
    Yes, I never realized how much shooting this is going to require!!?

    The rifle has a 24.75 inch barrel.

    My intention is to cut 18 inches off in one inch increments!

    Shooting will be 5, 10-shot groups.

    I have removed the open sights.

    I have adjusted the trigger, and installed a Bushnell 6-24X scope on it.

    I am going to check my ammo store and select the ammo. It seems I would need 1,800 of each type for the test!!!?


    Hopefully this answers more of your questions.

  11. #11
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    Of the better ammo the groups looks to closed up as the barrel got shorter by the test. Todd

  12. #12
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    quite some time ago this same style test was run it was published in either Shooting Times or the American rifleman ( somewhere in the early 80's. Increments were one inch. It was controlled enough that Anshutz repeated it in their facilities. Upshot was that around 19-20 inches gave the optimum velocity and "accuracy" deemed acceptable to their standards at that time. There were a series of rifles produced with barrels in this length and a sight tube on the end( bloop tube was the common name in referance to the sound) the tube was there only to extend the sight radius for Irons so the clicks were the same as before ( although many other ideas were ascribed to the tube- they were not tuners nor there to keep wind deflection to a minimum at the time of projectile exiting the barrel). One little tidbit, Annie barrels are slightly choked. Many Annie barrels were promptly wacked off ( but forgetting the slight choke) so the response a bit later was that it was so much black magic. I have an acquaintance that did that and bitched about it forever afterwards. At the time I had a very rough 52c- bull barrel that had been unkindly treated- the barrel was shortened to 20" restocked and a Canjar LP trigger installed it became my heavy siilly-wet gun and still is. Putting it back in the original prone stock it would produce 100- mutiple x count on the A36 target @ 50 ft or at 50 yards outdoors, providing of course that this operator did his part. Primary ammo feed to this rifle was Elely Practice 100 , Club, or RWS Match it also did well with CCI standard of that vintage.
    Last edited by blades; 02-05-2018 at 11:33 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by blades View Post
    quite some time ago this same style test was run it was published in either Shooting Times or the American rifleman ( somewhere in the early 80's. Increments were one inch. It was controlled enough that Anshutz repeated it in their facilities. Upshot was that around 19-20 inches gave the optimum velocity and "accuracy" deemed acceptable to their standards at that time. There were a series of rifles produced with barrels in this length and a sight tube on the end( bloop tube was the common name in referance to the sound) the tube was there only to extend the sight radius for Irons so the clicks were the same as before ( although many other ideas were ascribed to the tube- they were not tuners nor there to keep wind deflection to a minimum at the time of projectile exiting the barrel). One little tidbit, Annie barrels are slightly choked. Many Annie barrels were promptly wacked off ( but forgetting the slight choke) so the response a bit later was that it was so much black magic. I have an acquaintance that did that and bitched about it forever afterwards. At the time I had a very rough 52c- bull barrel that had been unkindly treated- the barrel was shortened to 20" restocked and a Canjar LP trigger installed it became my heavy siilly-wet gun and still is. Putting it back in the original prone stock it would produce 100- mutiple x count on the A36 target @ 50 ft or at 50 yards outdoors, providing of course that this operator did his part. Primary ammo feed to this rifle was Elely Practice 100 , Club, or RWS Match it also did well with CCI standard of that vintage.
    There is one correction/addition I would offer.
    A lot of the Anschutz work resulted in the first generation on the 2007 series actions and back then a very desirable feature was the barrel clamping that afforded one to reset headspace, back when rims were all over and everybody had rim thickness guages and sorted rims.
    This was all published as a cover story in the old Precision Shooting with testing done by a couple California guys that brought in the first 8-10 of those barreled actions.
    I was able to buy one of those first 2007 barreled actions and they did, indeed have very short barrels, on the order of 20".
    It also came with a bloop tube. It was slotted and the CM barrel had a small pin about an inch behind the muzzle, the bloop seated on this and then clamped much the same as today's devices.
    It did not have any other points, grooves, screws, of any kind to mount sights, and was noticably shorter and considerably heavier than anything that now supports sights.
    I can only deduce that this first generation device was supplied only as a tuner with no other use and never heard anything in regard to further production 2007's ever including such a piece of equipment.
    It was somewhat useful, however, I mostly shot this with an additional tuner developed back in the 50's-60's by a well known prone guy whose name I long since forgot.
    It involved an adhesive backed tape you mounted on your barrel and then a very strong ceramic magnet between two iron plates that went on the barrel.
    The theory was that once you attached it a set distance from the action, you could then rotate it's position on the barrel axis. You could, by doing this, move groups around on paper a good 1/2"-3/4" from previous print. Soon thereafter the Time units and the Hoehn 4000's came out.

  14. #14
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    which is more important

    Choke or Twist rate? I can measure Groove dia. with a Diatest split ball indicator that measures in tenths. The tightest place in the muzzle and the round place is easy. Head space with a clamped barrel doesn't amount to much with ignition like STILLERS 2500x. Twist rate makes or breaks a great rimfire barrel. You can make washers out of a barrel and the only thing you will get is a lot of pieces. A cz isn't much of a platform.

  15. #15
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    Gordon,
    Saeed has a couple or 10 accurate BR type rimfire rifles. He is just doing a comparison test of velocity of a barrel as it is shortened only. He is going to measure the muzzle blast (sound) also. It is a playtoy thing for him, but he tries to have certain controls to make his test information accurate. He has used Bleiker, Walther, and Anschutz factory rifles to test ammo for speed and accuracy. Fortunately Saeed has plenty of funds to play as he likes and some of his tests are fun to follow even if it may mean nothing to you.

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