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Thread: Anyone, 4895 powder in the 6PPC?

  1. #1
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    Anyone, 4895 powder in the 6PPC?

    I have read, in older PS match reports of some winners loading 4895 powder in the 65-68 grain bullets. I have tried some imr 4895 and getting great accuracy. But a case slam-damn full, 31 grains, I am getting about 3310-3325 velocity.

  2. #2
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    Well, that will certainly take you out of the running for the velocity trophy. Oh wait, there isn't one. One hall of fame shooter that I know told me that he does not care if his bullets walk down range as long as they cluster up into tiny groups. Some of the best 100 yard shooting that I ever witnessed was done with slow loads and relatively blunt bullets. In short range benchrest accuracy trumps everything.

  3. #3
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    3325 is not a bad place to be.
    My guns shoot well there at 100yds
    That load doesn't hold up as well at 200yds with the wind blowing

  4. #4
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    Larry Bagget

    Has won some matches with H4895 in the PPC. Yes it is on the slow side, but the difference in wind drift isn't that much. I heard rumors of him opening up the flash hole to get a little more velocity, or lest's just say maybe equal the velocity you are getting with less powder.

    Michael

  5. #5
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    In the early years I won a lot with H4895 The trick is to shove them into the lands and put as much as the case will hold. Strangely H4895 has the same burning rate as 133 but you could tune with 133. Lowell Hottenstein all ways carried a can of H4895, never get small groups but would agg like hell.

  6. #6
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    I'm a little slow on things sometimes
    You always hear over and over N133 likes a lot of neck tension.
    And left at that.
    Why does it like a lot of neck tension?
    I think it likes being jamed in the lands hard as well

  7. #7
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    I will tell you one of my favorite Benchrest Stories.

    At a Nationals in Kansas City about 8 years ago, the eavening before one of the 200 yardages, Larry Bagget went to a local gun store and bought a pound of 4895. He drilled the flash holes out to the standard size, and came out the next morning and won the 200 going away.

    All of his groups were nice and round, I think he might have agged in the "teens".

    Keep in mind, Larry is a VERY good shooter. He knew exactly what he was doing.

    It sure got my attention. Have I ever tried it? No. But I might yet.

  8. #8
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    That's the one!

    Quote Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
    I will tell you one of my favorite Benchrest Stories.

    At a Nationals in Kansas City about 8 years ago, the eavening before one of the 200 yardages, Larry Bagget went to a local gun store and bought a pound of 4895. He drilled the flash holes out to the standard size, and came out the next morning and won the 200 going away.

    All of his groups were nice and round, I think he might have agged in the "teens".

    Keep in mind, Larry is a VERY good shooter. He knew exactly what he was doing.

    It sure got my attention. Have I ever tried it? No. But I might yet.

    That's the exact story I was referring to, but wasn't there, so didn't know the details.

    Michael

  9. #9
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    In reference to why N133 'likes' a lot of neck tension...

    When powders are manufactured, the kernels are coated with some concoctions to stabilize the flame propagation on the surface of the kernel. Each manufacturer has its own secret sauce, and a lot of time the only difference between some of the products is the coating. While I don't know for sure, I'd bet that this is the case for LT30 vs. LT32 and N133 vs N135.

    So... N133 has a coating that is somewhat harder to ignite than say LT30/31/32 or 8208 powder. To get a consistent ignition (and consequently a better tune), the bullet needs to be held in place a touch longer while the powder column is set afire. Forcing a relatively higher amount of pressure to build in the chamber before the bullet starts to move accomplishes this. Two methods (used in infinite combinations) to achieve this are to jam the nose of the bullet into the lands and crunch down on it with neck tension.

    From not-quite-touching to hard-jam changes the bullet start pressure from approximately 3600 psi to somewhere around 12000-14000 psi. That is a 3-4X range of pressure and why a few thou of jam can make a big difference in load performance. Tweaking neck tension is hard to adjust in the same fine increments as bullet jam, but it can alter jam range making it easier to get bullets to shoot where you like 'em (jumpin' or jammin').

    Rod

  10. #10
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    Just askin'...but has anybody that has a good shooting rifle (133) ever reduced the neck tension to see if it would continue to shoot well?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur View Post
    Just askin'...but has anybody that has a good shooting rifle (133) ever reduced the neck tension to see if it would continue to shoot well?
    Wilbur, I shoot 133 and stopped using a lot of neck tension several years ago. I use about .001. I shoot a .269 neck, I want my loaded rounds to measure .267. I use a .266 bushing. That's not much tension. I do OK.

    It's the same with my 30 BR. I use about the same.

    Seating depth is extremely criticle in my 30BR. But once you find it, it turns a .280 Rifle into a .150 Rifle. And if you keep the throat fresh, it will stay there.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur View Post
    Just askin'...but has anybody that has a good shooting rifle (133) ever reduced the neck tension to see if it would continue to shoot well?

    IMO, powder burn rate and its effect on accuracy seems to be effected by "backpressure" it take to start the bullet. i.e. How much pressure it takes to get the bullet moving. Think of this, a bullet starts, the barrel vibration starts, how much vibration is generated by an easy start vs. a "banging" start.

    I have always found that jam has much more effect than neck tension. When I get to a light jam then I can sometimes tell that neck tension has more effect than with hard bullet jam. First off, to make a hard jam neck tension has to be quite a bit.

    A mystery to me, CCBW and HFV started it, was at a shoot a few years ago at Rockingham. CCBW and HFV were simply letting the bullets drop down to where they were resting on the powder and probably jumping a lot...and they shot in the top of the page doing this. Go frigger!!

    .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubCouper View Post
    In reference to why N133 'likes' a lot of neck tension...


    From not-quite-touching to hard-jam changes the bullet start pressure from approximately 3600 psi to somewhere around 12000-14000 psi. That is a 3-4X range of pressure and why a few thou of jam can make a big difference in load performance. Tweaking neck tension is hard to adjust in the same fine increments as bullet jam, but it can alter jam range making it easier to get bullets to shoot where you like 'em (jumpin' or jammin').

    Rod
    Do you suppose you could measure this with Pressure Trace?

  14. #14
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    What's a Pressure Trace?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur View Post
    What's a Pressure Trace?
    It measures chamber pressure & quite a bit of other stuff

    https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

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