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Thread: Tension/Compression barrels, water-cooled, etc

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    JB, who is the CHF?
    Technology is moving along in a very quick way, but can't see how a person could cut the grooves in a barrel, maybe it the rifling was straight and not in a twist.
    CHF = cold hammer forged

  2. #32
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    From what I've read, a lot of hammer forged barrels come off the mandrel needing to be straightened. But that the ones that don't need straightening shoot quite good.

  3. #33
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    Aren't quite a few commercial barrels, (maybe a majority), produce by the rotary hammer forged method?

    I've never seen this in person, but have seen detailed videos of rotary hammer forgers, and the tungsten carbide mandrel that is used to impregnate the lands, grooves, and even the chamberin in the ID. Very sophisticated, and very expensive, but obviously cost affective when considering the requirements of the finished product.

    From what I have read, residule stress is the problem when using this method in the manufacturing of barrels intended for extreme accuracy use. This stress is a non issue when dealing with Rifles that might be fired 10 times a year, but a deal killer in a Rifle that is fired 10 times in 10 minutes.
    Last edited by jackie schmidt; 05-25-2017 at 07:44 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRA View Post
    Daniels has been hammer forging barrels for the military. He does the chamber and the bore w/rifling all at once. It looks more like a swaging process than a hammer forge, but that's one of the future processes that will surely be perfected over time.
    I should have been a little more clear. I meant I cannot see how you could wire EDM a barrel with rifling. Hammer forging has been around for many years. I believe the Germans were the first in 1939. Button rifling was perfected at Remington in the 1940s.
    I have no opinions on Daniel as I've never heard of them.

  5. #35
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    Maybe hes talking about Daniel Defense Mr Butch? They strictly do ARs, very nice high quality ARs especially at their mid-range pricing, but ARs nonetheless with no relevance to real precision shooting.
    Anyhow, nother question for yall, why are the small gain twists used? Ie 1-15 to 1-14 and such. Why not larger gains? Or even a zero twist to whatever desired end twist? Have the smaller gains proven to shoot better?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhotrod View Post
    Maybe hes talking about Daniel Defense Mr Butch? They strictly do ARs, very nice high quality ARs especially at their mid-range pricing, but ARs nonetheless with no relevance to real precision shooting.
    Anyhow, nother question for yall, why are the small gain twists used? Ie 1-15 to 1-14 and such. Why not larger gains? Or even a zero twist to whatever desired end twist? Have the smaller gains proven to shoot better?
    I know about hammer forging. My question or statement was in regards to wire EDM. Unless new tech is available ain't going to be any wire EDM. Maybe yall can answer your question on gain twist. I understand the idea, but don't know if it is a real advantage.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhotrod View Post
    Maybe hes talking about Daniel Defense Mr Butch? They strictly do ARs, very nice high quality ARs especially at their mid-range pricing, but ARs nonetheless with no relevance to real precision shooting.
    Anyhow, nother question for yall, why are the small gain twists used? Ie 1-15 to 1-14 and such. Why not larger gains? Or even a zero twist to whatever desired end twist? Have the smaller gains proven to shoot better?
    I am shooting a 13 to 6 1/2 gsin twist to shoot the 90 VLD at 1000 yards. It shoots real well, never shot clean, but mid 190s, then again it is just a 20 inch 223 AR 15 with irons, prone and sling.

    The twist is what Bartlein came up with.

  8. #38
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    Though a little foggy, as I recall, in the early days of IBS 1,000 Yd. BR, on his 1K Yd. rigs, Charles Bailey selected a bullet/velocity/barrel/twist combination, and tuned it via tension: he did quite well, and told me that results repeatable. Except in "unlimited", due to weight restrictions, probably not workable in point-blank BR. Charles Ellertson and Joel Kendrick also achieved competitive results via tensioned barrels. RG

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.G. Robinett View Post
    Though a little foggy, as I recall, in the early days of IBS 1,000 Yd. BR, on his 1K Yd. rigs, Charles Bailey selected a bullet/velocity/barrel/twist combination, and tuned it via tension: he did quite well, and told me that results repeatable. Except in "unlimited", due to weight restrictions, probably not workable in point-blank BR. Charles Ellertson and Joel Kendrick also achieved competitive results via tensioned barrels. RG
    Do you think they wouldnt have acclompished the same thing with the same barrel minus the tension?

  10. #40
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    I seem to remember that Charles Ellertson tried it both ways with the same barrel and the tensioned deal shot a little better. Neither shot really really great.

    I'll go ahead and write what I think about this. You can print this post and trade it for a cup of coffee...along with $2. People have tried different things over the years, searching for a better way, and few are conclusive. "Standard" rifles seem to be in the majority in the winner's circle....and more often the standard rifle is cheaper to build and easier to sell if it won't win.
    Last edited by Wilbur; 06-01-2017 at 04:18 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhotrod View Post
    Do you think they wouldnt have acclompished the same thing with the same barrel minus the tension?
    I cannot answer this question. My primary recollection was that they could pick a bullet/twist/cartridge (velocity) combination and make it work repeatably & competitively: they believed in BBL tension. I suspect that, for point-blank, Dave and Jackie drove home the spike - it's probably not worth the expense and effort. RG

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