Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: 6.5x54 MS in a Modern Rifle?????

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    West central NH
    Posts
    480

    6.5x54 MS in a Modern Rifle?????

    Just trying to inject something new in this category........

    Anyone shoot a 6.5x54 MS in a modern rifle? Just wondering what your experiences are. I have a Steyr Ferdinand Von Mannlicher commemorative. It's a gorgeous rifle (other than the stupid medallion) but the chamber is ridiculously large. I have a bunch of Norma brass that I may start playing with. I think I'll have to WD-40 the cases for fire-forming, it's so roomy. The throat is so long I think you could seat a number 2 pencil to the bottom of the neck and not touch the lands with it.

    Maybe I should see if it will chamber a 6.5x55 Swede or a 6.5 Creedmoor.

    Just what the H*LL were they thinking, anyhow?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Branchville, NJ
    Posts
    480

    Check it first

    You might want to do a chamber cast first to see what it realy is. It might also have bad headspace. Could the bolt have been swapped?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    West central NH
    Posts
    480

    You're right about the cast.

    I do have materials to do a chamber cast, however I am moving to a new house and state and everything is packed up (including the gun). I just felt like writing about something as I am taking a year off from shooting for the move. I will make the cast before doing much more with this gun.

    The rifle is very high quality. I bought it new and have only shot it less than 20 times. I have done careful measurements before and after firing on brass and feel that the head space is fine. The body expansion does concern me, however. I guess they were trying to mimic the original MS chambering, but I would be surprised if even that is that sloppy. The lead is extra long. I got a Lock and Load threaded case made by Hornady from some empties and no bullet made would approach the lands and have anything left in the neck except maybe a Barnes.

    I did make up some loads with older Nosler 120 grain ballistic tips and got good accuracy and about 2450 fps. I forget the powder and charge (records are packed up too). Buffalo arms factory 160 round noses only got about 1900 fps and had an arc like a banana.

    If I can fire-form some new brass without threat of separation (via use of a wet chamber and light load) I should be able to load this a bit hotter than normal factory fodder. 140 Barnes Triple Shock bullets should be able to approach the lands and still have one caliber left in the neck. That's my current thinking anyhow.

    The other peculiarity of this rifle is that it has a long length of pull, but that seems to be a European thing. It is really more of a stand gun than a stalking gun. I fitted it with a 4-10 Pecar scope that has a long mounting surface and I was able to get it where I could mount the rifle comfortably and get correct eye relief.

    These rifles originally sold for around $3500. I got mine for half that and I think there are still some available at that price. It is a pretty gun. I wish I could get an extra magazine for it, but none are available since they are very caliber-specific. Otherwise one for a regular Steyr SBS would fit.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by vtmarmot View Post
    Just trying to inject something new in this category........

    Anyone shoot a 6.5x54 MS in a modern rifle? Just wondering what your experiences are. I have a Steyr Ferdinand Von Mannlicher commemorative. It's a gorgeous rifle (other than the stupid medallion) but the chamber is ridiculously large. I have a bunch of Norma brass that I may start playing with. I think I'll have to WD-40 the cases for fire-forming, it's so roomy. The throat is so long I think you could seat a number 2 pencil to the bottom of the neck and not touch the lands with it.

    Maybe I should see if it will chamber a 6.5x55 Swede or a 6.5 Creedmoor.

    Just what the H*LL were they thinking, anyhow?
    Note sure if this is of any interest but

    That said, there is one specific alternative weapon and cartridge that clearly bears consideration here -- the 6.5X54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer. Interestingly enough, the WCC 6.5 Carcano cartridges in evidence in connection with this assassination were part of a US government contract to supply ammunition to the Greek government during the 1945-8 Greek Civil War. And these WCC "Carcano" cartridges were assembled primarily for use in the standard Greek service rifle -- a version of the 6.5X54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer. The Greeks had fought with the Italians a bit and had captured thousands of 6.5 Carcano rifles from them -- rifles they then put to service in their civil war. It was an advantage to load the supplied 6.5mm cartridges so that they would function reasonably well in both weapons. The result was a bunch of cartridges that had some performance issues in the average Carcano, and perhaps in the MS as well, though the MS's .264 inch bore diameter is a match for the WCC bullets and unlikely to suffer the degraded accuracy commonly reported by Carcano shooters who experiment with .264 diameter bullets (Carcano bores are generally reported to run in the .268-.269 inch range, so smaller-diameter bullets made for the M-S come out a bit wobbly from them).

    (Taken from Keg Island website)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    West central NH
    Posts
    480

    Not sure where you're going with this.

    My point was to criticize Steyr for creating an expensive modern rifle and then cutting the chamber so loose that it might render case life very short for the handloader. That's a strange move considering that factory ammo for the 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenaur is not widely available.

    I was joking about chambering another cartridge in it. However, looking at the dimensions for the 6.5 Carcano, it would be loose in the Mannlicher chamber except for the bullet diameter, which is just a tad larger. The headspace would be dangerously large. To chamber the Mannlicher in the Carcano chamber would not be possible unless the Carcano chamber was cut hugely loose.

    The 6.5 Creedmoor is a shorter but much fatter cartridge than either of those while the 6.5x55 Swede is both fatter and longer.

    My hope here was to find someone who had done extensive load development in one of these Steyr commemorative rifles. I guess those that bought them made them safe queens. Too bad as they are nice rifles.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    100

    Curious chamber design needs to be oversome

    I have done some shooting with a model 1903 MS rifle built in 1908. I have talked to other MS shooters and it appears that the rifle/ammunition combination was developed without hand loading in mind, but ease of operation was a consideration. Headspace was generous by modern standards. What I have done is to set the die to account for this. Norma cases seem to survive the initial firing in the long chamber OK, and if one bumps the shoulder back only a few thousandths, they survive multiple reloadings. I fired some Midway brand cartridges, which failed frequently and I gave the remainder to a cartridge collector who knows the problem and will not fire them. Stick with Norma cases, adjust the sizing, and all should be well.

    Harold

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Carrollton Mo.
    Posts
    335

    nuumber 2 pencil

    I want to know what length lead pencil your shooting? They would be easy to shorten. Doug

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    5,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Casner View Post
    I want to know what length lead pencil your shooting? They would be easy to shorten. Doug
    Actually, I've got a manual and an electric pencil shortener. Neither is a pencil sharpener....just a shortener at best.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Carrollton Mo.
    Posts
    335

    pencil

    I always used a short pencil. Doug

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    103

    Found this...

    Quote Originally Posted by vtmarmot View Post
    Just trying to inject something new in this category........

    Anyone shoot a 6.5x54 MS in a modern rifle? Just wondering what your experiences are. I have a Steyr Ferdinand Von Mannlicher commemorative. It's a gorgeous rifle (other than the stupid medallion) but the chamber is ridiculously large. I have a bunch of Norma brass that I may start playing with. I think I'll have to WD-40 the cases for fire-forming, it's so roomy. The throat is so long I think you could seat a number 2 pencil to the bottom of the neck and not touch the lands with it.

    Maybe I should see if it will chamber a 6.5x55 Swede or a 6.5 Creedmoor.

    Just what the H*LL were they thinking, anyhow?
    Found this for you: https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...er-schoenauer/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •