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Thread: Sporter and THREE Gun Nationals

  1. #1
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    Sporter and THREE Gun Nationals

    Does anyone know the course of fire for the Sporter Nationals and the Three Gun Nats? Kind of confusing tthe way it is listed on the schedule.
    Who plans to attend?

  2. #2
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    Sporter National Yards and 3-gun yards will be shot on Saturday. Sporter Nationals meters and 3-gun meters will be shot on Sunday. Friday will be David Cook Memorial match starting at 12 noon. It will be a double 3-gun soty match. If you plan on shooting the David Cook match please let us know in advance. We are having nice collared shirts with pocket made for the match and we need shirt sizes.

    Thanks
    Jim

    423-306-4319

    jimjonessr@aol.com

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Jones View Post
    Sporter National Yards and 3-gun yards will be shot on Saturday. Sporter Nationals meters and 3-gun meters will be shot on Sunday. Friday will be David Cook Memorial match starting at 12 noon. It will be a double 3-gun soty match. If you plan on shooting the David Cook match please let us know in advance. We are having nice collared shirts with pocket made for the match and we need shirt sizes.

    Thanks
    Jim

    423-306-4319

    jimjonessr@aol.com
    Jim,

    Thanks for the response. But just to be clear: Are we going to shoot three Sporter targets (Yards) first for the Sporter Nats. Then shoot the sporter match (yards) then the 10.5lb match (yards), then the 13.5 lb. match (yards) all on Saturday. Then do the same thing for meters on Sunday?

    If this is the case, I have more questions. If one only shoots the three gun, what time will that match start on Saturday/Sunday and please don't say after the sporter match. Many of us need a time. No sense driving in the middle of the night to get there if the match doesn't start until, say 1:00 pm.

    If we start the three gun in the middle of the day, what effect is that going to have on records of the past? When the match was started earlier in the day?

    TKH

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Jim,

    Thanks for the response. But just to be clear: Are we going to shoot three Sporter targets (Yards) first for the Sporter Nats. Then shoot the sporter match (yards) then the 10.5lb match (yards), then the 13.5 lb. match (yards) all on Saturday. Then do the same thing for meters on Sunday?

    If this is the case, I have more questions. If one only shoots the three gun, what time will that match start on Saturday/Sunday and please don't say after the sporter match. Many of us need a time. No sense driving in the middle of the night to get there if the match doesn't start until, say 1:00 pm.

    If we start the three gun in the middle of the day, what effect is that going to have on records of the past? When the match was started earlier in the day?

    TKH
    Tony:
    Perhaps Jim and Wayne will set a "not earlier than" time for the 3 Gun Match but that's up to them. That might pin down your launch time from home if you're just coming for the afternoon 3-Gun Match taking into account registration and set-up time.

    As for how records set or not set here will be taken into account I can't see any way to handle it other than taking everything at face value. This isn't a sport that has "wind assisted" records like track and field. Some records have been shot in extremely favorable conditions and others have been shot in tougher ones. They all count the same. What other way is there to do it?

    Bruce

  5. #5
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    What I don't understand is why the change from the past of having the sporter nats on Friday and the 3 gun on sat and sun so the folks who have to drive a long way can be home at a decent time so they can go to work on Monday.It is going to be a really long ride if the nats aren't over until late in the day on sunday.It is understandable to do the yards one day and the meters another in regards to changing backers but it is going to put both final awards ceremonies on sunday as well, if it is like normal waiting on all the protests and what not we will be waiting forever especially with a 7+ hour drive staring at us, if I were retired it would be different I guess.
    MC

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxxPower View Post
    Tony:
    Perhaps Jim and Wayne will set a "not earlier than" time for the 3 Gun Match but that's up to them. That might pin down your launch time from home if you're just coming for the afternoon 3-Gun Match taking into account registration and set-up time.

    As for how records set or not set here will be taken into account I can't see any way to handle it other than taking everything at face value. This isn't a sport that has "wind assisted" records like track and field. Some records have been shot in extremely favorable conditions and others have been shot in tougher ones. They all count the same. What other way is there to do it?

    Bruce
    Bruce,

    Thanks for the reply. What I was hoping was we would do the Sporter Nats. all on Saturday, and the Three Gun all on Sunday. I understand that means moving the backers, but for a National Match, held once a year, surely that isn't too much trouble. We have been do it for years. That will allow travelers that want to shoot only one of the matches to have one over night vs forcing everyone to have two.

    I have seen all kinds of conditions that mother nature has thrown at us over the years, but changing the start times is a self imposed action that may be a limitation. When I say "self imposed" I mean imposed by "management" rather than mother nature.

    Whatever is decided, is decided, but we all should know in advance what the plan is. The way the schedule reads now does not tell anyone what we are doing.

    Thanks again for your response. TKH
    Last edited by tonykharper; 09-13-2016 at 06:46 PM.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Bruce,

    Thanks for the reply. What I was hoping was we would do the Sporter Nats. all on Saturday, and the Three Gun all on Sunday. I understand that means moving the backers, but for a National Match, held once a year, surely that isn't too much trouble. We have been do it for years. That will allow travelers that want to shoot only one of the matches to have one over night vs forcing everyone to have two.
    Tony, I can't recall it ever being done that way in the 5 years I've been doing this. Since having the Sporter Nationals go to a 6 target Yards/Meters match just started last year it's safe to say that it was never done that way.

    But, to put in perspective what I assume Wayne is responding to there was a lot of complaining about having 6 Sporter targets (including 3 Meters Sporter targets) all on one day at the Sporter Nationals on Friday. Then there was complaining that there was too much wasted time spreading out the 3-Gun Nationals over two days (Saturday and Sunday). Also, if you aren't retired or can't take a Friday off work then you can't shoot the Sporter Nationals.

    So, taking in to account all of these factors is there a betters scenario than this one? I can't see one.

    We have scheduled the Sporter and 3-Gun Nationals the same way at Piney Hill next year in March so I'll be looking with interest at how this goes.

    I'm personally pretty excited about the format. 4 Sporter targets each day (not too much) and two Nationals competed over two days. One less motel room than last year. Less down time.

    We'll see.

    Bruce

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxxPower View Post
    Tony, I can't recall it ever being done that way in the 5 years I've been doing this. Since having the Sporter Nationals go to a 6 target Yards/Meters match just started last year it's safe to say that it was never done that way.

    But, to put in perspective what I assume Wayne is responding to there was a lot of complaining about having 6 Sporter targets (including 3 Meters Sporter targets) all on one day at the Sporter Nationals on Friday. Then there was complaining that there was too much wasted time spreading out the 3-Gun Nationals over two days (Saturday and Sunday). Also, if you aren't retired or can't take a Friday off work then you can't shoot the Sporter Nationals.

    So, taking in to account all of these factors is there a betters scenario than this one? I can't see one.

    We have scheduled the Sporter and 3-Gun Nationals the same way at Piney Hill next year in March so I'll be looking with interest at how this goes.

    I'm personally pretty excited about the format. 4 Sporter targets each day (not too much) and two Nationals competed over two days. One less motel room than last year. Less down time.

    We'll see.

    Bruce
    My statement of "We have been do it for years" was about shooting one match and completing it before starting another match. That is how it has always been done, including the ones you ran.

    Be that as it may, you make good points. Shooting 6 sporter targets in one day. That was tough, shooting four both days may be better.

    The other point you made about reducing down time is also good. It never made sense to shoot three targets and be done before noon, then hanging around the rest of the day and night for the last three targets.

    So to get in the Sporter Nats, and the three gun Nats in two day is an improvement.

    Attendance will tell us if this is the right direction.

    I really do think the exiting records will stand for a very long time if we keep this format, but in the long run it is better to get more shooters to the matches, especially the Nationals.

    I do have one more question. Will we have two relays even if we have enough benches to shoot everyone in one? It is always done that way, but it never made sense to me. I would rather line up shoulder to shoulder, and shoot it out, rather than worrying about who got on the first relay, and who didn't. If we fill up all the benches then there is no choice, but that normally isn't the case.

    Thanks for the answers Bruce, I'm sure I'm not the only person that needed to hear the plan.
    TKH
    Last edited by tonykharper; 09-15-2016 at 12:05 AM.

  10. #10
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    My whole reason for this format is that we had several people request to get the Nationals done in two days to help reduce cost. That being said as stated previously we also had complaints about shooting 6 sporter targets in a row. I tried to set it up so we could shoot the yards section reset backers to meters and allow practice time for meters on Saturday evening for those who wish to practice meters. I want to accommodate the shooters as best as possible and that is the whole reason behind the changes. I have spoke with Wayne and this will be brought up in the meeting at the Nationals so we can better please the shooters. We encourage every ones input as we go forward to better our matches.

    Thanks
    Jim

    423-306-4319
    jimjonessr@aol.com

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Will we have two relays even if we have enough benches to shoot everyone in one? It is always done that way, but it never made sense to me. I would rather line up shoulder to shoulder, and shoot it out, rather than worrying about who got on the first relay, and who didn't. If we fill up all the benches then there is no choice, but that normally isn't the case.
    TKH
    Tony:

    The current rules require an accommodation for shooters that need to share equipment by running two relays. It also requires those shooters to notify the Rangemaster 24 hours in advance.

    My hope, like yours, is that we can shoot it all in one relay.

  12. #12
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    IR 50/50 Sporter and Three Gun Nationals 2016

    Now we know how we are going to shoot this yearís Sporter, and Three gun Nationals, letís look at what is at stake in these two tournaments.

    Big national tournaments are about bragging rights. It is a big deal to be able to say you are the 2016 IR 50/50 Three Gun, or Sporter Nationals Champion. There will only be one each!

    There is also other titles to be won. You could win the Three Gun Sporter Champion title, the Three Gun 10.5 lb. Champion title, the Three Gun 13.5 lb. Champion title, ect. ect. Each of these titles come with Hall of Fame points. To win these titles all you have to do is out shoot the field on one target.

    Sporter Nationals Hall of Fame points up for grabs:

    Sporter 1 = 1 point
    Sporter 2 = 1 point
    Sporter 3 =1 point
    3-Gun Agg Yards = 3 points
    3-Gun Agg Meters = 3 points

    6-Target Agg Ė 1st Place = 5 points
    2nd Place = 4 points
    3rd Place = 3 points
    4th Place = 2 points
    5th Place = 1 point

    Three Gun Nationals Hall of Fame points up for grabs:

    Sporter Class = 1 point
    10.5 # Class = 1 point
    13.5 # Class = 1 point
    2-Gun Agg Yards = 2 points
    2-Gun Agg Meters = 2 points
    3-Target Agg Yards = 3 points
    3-Target Agg Meters = 3 points
    4-Gun Agg = 4 points

    6-Target Agg
    1st Place = 6 points
    2nd Place = 5 points
    3rd Place = 4 points
    4th Place = 3 points
    5th Place = 2 points

    That is a total of 61 Hall of Fame points up for grabs in one weekend. Come get you sum.

    This link will take you to the Hall of Fame Page on the IR 50/50 website. http://www.ir5050.com/hall-of-fame/

    This link will take you to the Tournament winners page on the IR 50/50 website. http://www.ir5050.com/archive/

    Take a minute and look at these links. It will give you an idea of how others have done.

    There are other prizes that come with the titles, and the Hall of Fame points. First off, if you win the overall Sporter Nationals, or the Three Gun Nationals you will receive a very nice Golden Eagle trophy.

    There will be other prizes as well.

    The titles, trophies, and Hall of Fame points are for the lucky winners, but everyone that attends will be a winner.

    The opportunity to converse with other shooters that share your shooting interest is priceless. Some of the best shooters in the country will be at the Nationals and all of them are more than willing to share information with fellow shooters.

    You will learn more at the Nationals than you will learn shooting local matches all year. Make plans to attend. This is the biggest IR 50/50 shooting weekend of the year.

    TKH

  13. #13
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    Champion of Champions Trophy

    There will also be a SPECIAL TROPHY this year for the Champion of Champions. This will be the shooter who has the highest combined Sporter and 3-Gun aggs. In theory we could have three different shooters win the Sporter, 3-Gun and Champion of Champion. The Sporter and 3-Gun winner will get 250.00 each from IR50/50.
    We have the Nationals hats, Trophies and David Cook Shirts ready to give out. We have been doing a lot of prep work at the range and it is looking good. We will have most of the Triple Crown Scoring team on hand to score, so scoring should go really smooth.
    Looking forward to seeing everyone,
    Wayne

  14. #14
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    IR 50/50 Sporter and Three Gun Nationals 2016

    Who are the contenders at the Sporter, and Three Gun Nationals?

    Kinda hard to tell since we donít know who plans to attend.
    If you are not in the witness protection program, please respond to this thread and let us know if you plan to be there.

    Sporter Nationals:

    To speculate, we could look at last yearís winner. Mike Cameron. He won the Sporter Nationals last year going away.

    He looks to be a good pick to repeat. But then again, we have Dennis Drake. Dennis won the indoor Sporter Nationals earlier this year, he always shoots the sporter well. He could be the man.

    Then we have this yearís Sporter scoreline leader, Ed Hosier. Ed has shot his sporter like no other this year.

    He could run away with this thing, if he continues to shoot the way he has been this year.

    Looking right under him on the Sporter scoreline, who do we find? Mike Cameron.

    All said and done, my pick is Mike Cameron as the man to beat in this yearís Sporter Nationals.

    Three Gun Nationals:

    Last yearís winner was Bruce Hornstein. He has been shooting well all year. He could repeat.

    Then we have our current Three Gun scoreline leader, Gene Stroyan. He is the current leader for a reason.

    He has been just killing it this year. He could take this thing home. Right under him in the second place position is, guess who, Mike Cameron.

    Out of the three, my pick is again Mike Cameron.

    Mike could very well win both of these tournaments.

    Then we have a list of dark horses that can step up and win these matches.

    Fred Sears. Fred has more Hall of Fame points than any other active shooter. He could win both of these tournaments if he shows up.

    Ken Camper could do the same, and you can pretty much bet he will be there.

    Mac See has been shooting well this year. He could step up and take it home.

    The guys from New York could show up and win. They have done it before.

    When it comes down to it, anyone could win this thing.

    But you canít win it, if you ainít in it. Make your plans to be there.
    TKH
    Last edited by tonykharper; 09-15-2016 at 05:54 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Who are the contenders at the Sporter, and Three Gun Nationals?

    Kinda hard to tell since we donít know who plans to attend.
    If you are not in the witness protection program, please respond to this thread and let us know if you plan to be there.

    Sporter Nationals:

    To speculate, we could look at last yearís winner. Mike Cameron. He won the Sporter Nationals last year going away.

    He looks to be a good pick to repeat. But then again, we have Dennis Drake. Dennis won the indoor Sporter Nationals earlier this year, he always shoots the sporter well. He could be the man.

    Then we have this yearís Sporter scoreline leader, Ed Hosier. Ed has shot his sporter like no other this year.

    He could run away with this thing, if he continues to shoot the way he has been this year.

    Looking right under him on the Sporter scoreline, who do we find? Mike Cameron.

    All said and done, my pick is Mike Cameron as the man to beat in this yearís Sporter Nationals.

    Three Gun Nationals:

    Last yearís winner was Bruce Hornstein. He has been shooting well all year. He could repeat.

    Then we have our current Three Gun scoreline leader, Gene Stroyan. He is the current leader for a reason.

    He has been just killing it this year. He could take this thing home. Right under him in the second place position is, guess who, Mike Cameron.

    Out of the three, my pick is again Mike Cameron.

    Mike could very well win both of these tournaments.

    Then we have a list of dark horses that can step up and win these matches.

    Fred Sears. Fred has more Hall of Fame points than any other active shooter. He could win both of these tournaments if he shows up.

    Ken Camper could do the same, and you can pretty much bet he will be there.

    Mac See has been shooting well this year. He could step up and take it home.

    The guys from New York could show up and win. They have done it before.

    When it comes down to it, anyone could win this thing.

    But you canít win it, if you ainít in it. Make your plans to be there.
    TKH
    Btt

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