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Thread: ITAR Registration

  1. #1
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    ITAR Registration

    On Friday 07/22/2016 the State Department issued a clarification on firearm manufacturing, gunsmithing and ITAR registration. Looks to me like a whole lot of people who thought they've been exempt are going to have register and pay ITAR or risk the wrath of the government.

    Applicability of the ITAR Registration Requirement to Firearms Manufacturers and Gunsmiths

    http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/A...0(Publish).pdf

  2. #2
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    i was pretty sure the rule was "if you could..",
    then you paid and itar...
    it was never , if you did, it was if you can.
    typical government bs.

  3. #3
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    It looks like legislation by an unelected bureaucracy.

  4. #4
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    After reading the first link and doing a search I found this: https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/documen...ng_started.pdf. This seems to talk only about exportation while the first link just talks about manufacturing. Sounds to me like the government wants to start tracking who's "manufacturing" firearms under the guise of ITAR regardless of whether they're exporting.

  5. #5
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    I found this. Wow, that's an expensive fee!

    http://johnpierceesq.com/want-to-get...t-forget-itar/
    https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/registration/arf.html

    It sounds as if a Type 1 FFL is no longer valid for a gunsmith who cuts threads for a barrel or brake/suppressor. Now you're considered a manufacturer and not a gunsmith and would need a Type 7 license.
    Last edited by parshal; 07-28-2016 at 02:07 PM.

  6. #6
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    Sorry I keep adding to this thread!

    I spent 45 minutes on the phone with the Chief of the Compliance and Registration Office at the number listed in the first link provided. The recent announcement isn't a change but a compilation and guidance of what they've done in the past. There are no changes. The gist of the conversation was that if I were to do work for a buddy or two nothing would probably happen. If I did that regularly I'd have to register.

    We discussed the 01 and 07 FFL's and he was really unaware that you can be a gunsmith with an 01. We looked here: https://www.atf.gov/file/82791/download and see that you can assemble a firearm including cutting threads for a receiver owned by someone else under an 01 and not be considered a manufacturer, under ATF rules. If you're buying the guns, actions, etc., assembling them and selling them you are considered a manufacturer.

    He suggested submitting a letter to get guidance and explain that replacing a worn barrel on most firearms requires machining threads. His feeling was that they may not know processes exactly and that they may be more restrictive than they intend to be. In other words, since the ATF doesn't call someone a manufacturer simply because they thread a barrel maybe ITAR shouldn't either.

  7. #7
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    The ATF and State Department are two different entities. How one defines "manufacturing" may or may not be the same as the other defines it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon Prec. View Post
    How one defines "manufacturing" may or may not be the same as the other defines it.
    They definitely are not defined the same. That's why he suggested sending a letter for guidance. He's opinion was that it's quite possible they'd adopt the ATF's definition given that one can affix a barrel (thread it) under a type 1 FFL rather than needing the manufacturers license.

  9. #9
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    Anyone can thread bbls.....
    It is when you start playing with the part with a serial number
    that issues occur.
    Threading a receiver( recutting threads) on someone else's receiver
    should also be a non-issue.

    The whole idea that because i make a gun, and it is possible to export it,
    thus requiring itar registration and fees is pure bs.


    Nothing new we have been through this

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaier View Post
    Anyone can thread bbls.....
    ..
    Threading a receiver( recutting threads) on someone else's receiver
    should also be a non-issue.
    According to the guy I spoke with this is indeed considered manufacturing. I specifically asked about threading barrels for fitting to an action or a muzzle brake. If you have to machine anything it's considered manufacturing according to the State Department. It explicitly says if you machine threads on the barrel it's considered manufacturing and you must register.

  11. #11
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    It's all about the money and control. I'd suggest writing to your congressmen and seeing if they can get something done about it and probably even if they did pass a bill to make it easier on gunsmiths, it would probably get vetoed with what we have in office now. ITAR was set up for exporting. Evidently they have branched out to areas that shouldn't concern them. Here is the link to the BATF's 2010 ruling on gunsmiths doing manufacturing. It appears to me that we are dealing with two different agencies with conflicting rules for what is considered manufacturing.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...under/download

    The pertinent part from the above link is copied below:

    Gunsmithing
    A dealer is “engaged in the business” of gunsmithing, as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(D) and 27 CFR 478.11, when he/she receives firearms (frames, receivers, or otherwise) provided by a customer for the purpose of repairing, modifying, embellishing, refurbishing, or installing parts in or on those firearms. Once the work is completed, the gunsmith returns the firearms, and charges the customer for labor and parts. As with an individual customer, a licensed dealer-gunsmith may receive firearms (properly identified with a serial number and other information required by 27 CFR 478.92) and conduct gunsmithing services for a customer who is a licensed importer or manufacturer. A dealer-gunsmith is not “engaged in the business” of manufacturing firearms because the firearms being produced are not owned by the dealer-gunsmith, and he/she does not sell or distribute the firearms manufactured. Once the work is completed, the dealer-gunsmith returns the firearms to the importer or manufacturer upon completion of the manufacturing processes, and does not sell or distribute them to any person outside the manufacturing process. Under these circumstances, the licensed dealer-gunsmith is not “engaged in the business” of manufacturing firearms requiring a manufacturer’s license.

    On a separate link to the 50 gun exemption for paying the Federal Firearms and Ammunition excise tax. If you produce under 50 firearms in a year, there is no FAET due on those firearms. However, if you produce 51 firearms in a year, then you pay the FAET on all 51 firearms. https://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faet-faqs.shtml

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmer T. View Post
    It appears to me that we are dealing with two different agencies with conflicting rules for what is considered manufacturing
    Exactly. The State Department doesn't define manufacturing like the ATF does. They rely on a "standard" definition and their interpretation is any machining is considered manufacturing. He said writing to them and explaining how replacing a worn out barrel on a rifle usually requires some sort of machine and, therefore, couldn't be done under their definition without being registered. He said they could "re-interpret" if what they're doing is putting undo burden on a gunsmith's job. Or something like that.

  13. #13
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    Here's what the NRA has to say about it. Looks like it was done by another illegal executive order.

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...ve-gun-control

  14. #14
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    Does the State Dept. have jurisdiction over this if the work isn't performed for export?

  15. #15
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    Under heading a) in the link provided in the first post:

    Any person who engages in the United States in the business of manufacturing or
    exporting or temporarily importing defense articles, or furnishing defense services, is
    required to register with the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls under §122.2.


    If you're in the business of manufacturing OR exporting you must register. They essentially define manufacturing as anything involving cutting of metal such as threading a barrel. It specifically mentions threading a barrel.

    According to them, firearms are considered defense articles.

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