Lt-32 for 30br and other 30 caliber shooters
I started this as a new thread because most information on this powder is based on the 6PPC. I arrived at the Whittington Center this morning with chronograph in hand. I had planned on picking up 32 lbs of LT-32 from Butch, but the shipment didn't make it in before he left Oklahoma. Fortunately Butch had a jug of the LT-32 that had been sent to him for testing. I was excited about testing this new powder in the 30-30 since I had heard reports that this powder is on the faster side. If this powder could make velocity with ease in the 30-30, then it could have great potential in all cases from the 30 Major to the 30X47. The 30-30 runs around 3.5 grains more than the 30BR. I started at 38gr. and worked my way up to 41gr. Bolt lift and extraction was effortless at 41gr., and was no different than the 38gr. load. I could have gone all the way to 42gr., but after initial testing, I felt no need to add that extra grain. The chronographing started around 60 degrees, which did prove to give lower velocities than realized later as I went back down on my loads searching for the best tune at a higher temperature. I did find that the three shots that were loaded to 39gr. went into the same small round hole as the three shots that were fired at 40gr. All loads were chronographed with 115gr Berger Bullets out of a 23" barrel. I was very impressed with the way this powder flows though the measure, and with the ease it makes velocity. After this initial testing, I have estimated that a good 30BR load for around 3000 fps could be attained with approximately 35gr. This may be the best 30 caliber powder we've seen in a long time.
38gr. - 2996 fps.
39gr. - 3105 fps.
40gr. - 3193 fps.
41gr. - 3291 fps.
After my testing was done, Butch fired a load of 26gr. of this powder in his 6PPC. Average velocity was 3050 fps. This load proved extremely accurate in his rifle. So accurate that he said he was going to shoot it and do his best to read the wind. Another guy's load of N133 chronographed at 3023 fps. These velocities are just where they happed to be after each guy had found a good tune. I will shoot the LT-32 this weekend in the light gun at the 38gr. load range. This will give me that typical 30BR velocity and tune. In the heavy gun, I will shoot 39gr. of N133 for a velocity of 3120 fps. With the way I have been shooting lately, please do not judge this powder by a poor performance on my part. Maybe I will have a decent match for a change.
Again, great info-data Mike. However, even tho' a 30-30 and a 30 BR case have the same volume they have other major differences, i.e., physical shape, operating pressure, powd column diameter and height, expansion ratio, flash hole and primer size, etc. In fact you could probably make (and win!) the case that they are more different than similiar. The 30-30 requires powds that have a medium-fast burning rate thus powds like 3031, H322, N133 work great. Although those same powds will work in 30BR they are just a little too slow (burning) to get the maximum velocity easily achieved by H4198, N130, and T2000. Where LT-32 fits I'm not sure. Based on my reading of BRC Forums and others there are a number of lots of this powder out there. Posters have said that some (lots) appear (or are) faster burning than others. LT-32 was created to duplicate the old T-32 powder, which was probably the best powder ever used in a 6 PPC. If that is true - then its burning speed is about the same as N133 or old lots of H322. As you and others have noted and posted to this forum, those two powds will work in a 30 BR but velocities are on low side and loads tend to be compressed. With no actual testing to go on - the only thing I can do is speculate - so here's goes. I think a lot of LT-32 that is "just a little" to fast (burning) for a 6 PPC will work well in a 30 BR, while lots that work great in a 6 PPC will be a little to slow. They (slower lots) can be used but velocities will be low and loads compressed. Comments, data, suggestions are always welcome . . .
Originally Posted by mturner
Zdog (that's Zee-Dog! Chris Mitchell)
I still say that LT-32 is fast enough to make velocity in the 30BR. I have seen enough testing done in both cases to get a good feel of the burn rates needed to work in both. As far as pressures are concerned, I run as much or more pressure in the 30-30. At 39gr. of 4198, I'm actually building more pressure than a 30BR at 34.5gr of 4198. At the pressures I run, 3031 isn't a workable powder for me. Even IMR 4198 is just barely fast enough to make decent velocity. In the 30-30, the fastest velocities are obtained with 30BR burn rate powders, not with the 6PPC powders. I only use N133 and similar powdwers for up to 3100 fps.
LT-32 will make velocity in a 30BR it just takes more of it than 4198. Accuracy was no better with LT-32 in my 30BR than compared to 4198 so i dont see the need to waste my LT shooting it in the 30. Ill save mine for the ppc were it really shines. Lee
LT-32 / .30BR Testing
All testing was done with Ronnie Cheek's 118 gr. 7 ogive bullets, Wolf SRM primers, 76 degree temperature and 75% humidity. My .30br chamber is the long neck version with cases trimmed to 1.545".
Chronograph is a Chrony Betamaster and I tested 3 shot groups so take the absolute velocity with a grain of salt. I just wanted to see the relative difference.
Control load - 35.0 gr. H4198 avg. vel 3059 fps.
35.0 LT-32 avg. vel 2942.
35.5 LT-32 avg. vel 2983.
36.0 LT-32 avg. vel 3003.
This lot of Cheek bullets is a known good lot of bullets from a couple of years ago as is the H4198.
The LT-32 is marked 12/21/12 lot 1 on the bottom of the jug.
The LT-32 appears to be about 100 fps slower at the same charge weight and is close to the maximum charge that I can get into my case at 36.0 grains. Might could squeeze in another 1/2 grain; I didn't try.
The LT-32 load at 35.0 put all three into one little bitty hole. It needs some more testing but if it follows thru, I would shoot that load. The 36.0 was also a nice group.
Originally Posted by Joe Duke
By looking at Joe's data, LT-32 looks very promising. One of the main benefits I see from this powder in any cartridge, is the fact that it throws very consistant. While 4198 is a proven shooter in the 30BR, it doesn't flow well through a measure when compared to LT-32. Thanks Joe for sharing you data with us. This is exactly what we need.
I'm with Mike on this one and Joe - thank you for the testing. All else being equal I can live with the "one grain slower" situation because right now LT-32 is more obtainable than H4198. Lester (Bruno) had some H4198 a while bk but he's filling orders from wks ago so the chances of getting any are pretty slim. Even Gun Broker and others on the 'net are out, so if I get a chance to get some LT at a decent price I think I'll do so. I'll post the data when I do.
Originally Posted by mturner
Zdog (Chris Mitchell)
Hey it's me again. Just checked Bruno's site which states they're 3,800 orders behind, but are able to fill non Haz Mat orders in a week and Haz Mat ones in two wks. Oh, and he has some 8# jugs of H4198 listed as in stock. Didn't mean to give anyone wrong info - sorry . . .
Originally Posted by Zdog
Zdog (that's Zee-Dog! chris Mitchell)
Testing is fairly easy. This is my home range; the bench is on my porch. It is about 15 feet from the loading bench.
Must be nice Joe!
Originally Posted by Joe Duke
Weight Versus Volume
You may notice from my original post that the N133 actually produced similar velocity to the LT-32 in the 30-30 at the 39gr. range. The barrel was 1" shorter on my LV than my HV. That is only a minor difference, however, the main difference is powder density. I can get about 3 grains more of the LT-32 in the case than I can get of N133. I would think that the 30BR or 6PPC shooter can get roughly 2 more grains of LT-32 than the N133. In the 30-30, I can get at least 200 fps more out of the LT-32 then what I see with N133. My N133 is a 2008 lot. Keep in mind that while the N133 is a little on the slow side, this was with 115gr. bullets. A lot more powders become usable in the 30-30 and the 30BR when the bullet selection is 125gr. and up. As a matter of fact, I used to shoot the 150gr. Sierra Matchking on top of 38gr. of IMR4320 for a velocity of 2800 fps. That was one hard hitting, hard kicking, wind bucking 30-30 load.
Thanks for the info, Michael. There are some of us 30BR shooters (myself included) that also 'tune' with bullet weight using 4198 in the 30BR's. Substituting my 125's for my 117's will make some lots of 4198 act 'faster'...for lack of a better term...due to increased pressure using the same powder weight. I make all my bullets on the 1.00" jackets. Those using the 112-118 .925's that substitute the 1.00" jackets may find an even larger amt. of 'tune' available.
Good shootin'. -Al
Al, that is also good info. I think you have posted before, but what dies are you using to make your bullets?
Joe, my dies are from Larry Blackmon. -Al