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Thread: We Haven't Had A Good Car Thread In A While...........My '67 Chevelle

  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmort View Post
    Al
    The laptop thing is really cool, but if you need a backup system I can send you one of my files for dressing points.....I'm always here to help.

    Mort

    Chuckle chuckle

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Nyhus View Post
    Yesterday's project on a pals supercharged Cobra Jet drag car:

    Out with the Roush engine:


    In with the B.E.S. engine:


    Full disclosure...it wasn't exactly 'out and in'. These car are extremely complex and downright hard-azz difficult to work on. The good thing about them is once their up and running, you don't really do any work on 'em except with the laptop.
    Al, I have been toying with the idea of the new LT-5. They are available now with supporting hardware.

    The problem I am finding out is just getting the darn thing in a car. It seems everything on one interferes with something in a GM A Body.

    I have Nickens looking into what it would take. The engine in the crate is $17000, probably another $15,000 to get it in and actually crank.

    The idea of a supercharged 750 Hp 720 lbft of torque is rather appealing.

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
    Al, I have been toying with the idea of the new LT-5. They are available now with supporting hardware.

    The problem I am finding out is just getting the darn thing in a car. It seems everything on one interferes with something in a GM A Body.

    I have Nickens looking into what it would take. The engine in the crate is $17000, probably another $15,000 to get it in and actually crank.

    The idea of a supercharged 750 Hp 720 lbft of torque is rather appealing.
    if them front wheels don't come up........ you need more torque

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
    Al, I have been toying with the idea of the new LT-5. They are available now with supporting hardware. The problem I am finding out is just getting the darn thing in a car. It seems everything on one interferes with something in a GM A Body. I have Nickens looking into what it would take. The engine in the crate is $17000, probably another $15,000 to get it in and actually crank. The idea of a supercharged 750 Hp 720 lbft of torque is rather appealing.
    Jackie, the LT5 in your Chevelle is a ambitious project, but one that deserves to be done. You may want to look into the aftermarket frames that give you some more room up there.

    On this Cobra Jet, the chassis work was done by East Texas Race Cars (Vic Custer) in Nacogdoches, Texas. The engine was mounted to the front subframe, the headers built and then the entire subframe and engine was raised up from below. Coming out from above with the kicked out oil pan, around the steering shaft, etc. is a real challenge.

    We got the new piece in yesterday but not without some hiccups. I made some new dowel pins on the lathe from .625 o.d., .083 wall chrome moly tubing to extend through the mid plate that sandwiches between the block and the trans, while car owner Bob reworked the front of the left side of the block to accept the drivers side motor plate. There are some subtle differences between engines but all in all, the new piece will be a cleaner deal....plus it makes 200 h.p. more than the Roush engine. In the bottom photo, you can see that the new engine has the Holley individual coil-on-plug deal. A wiring harness needs to be done to trigger the coils from the existing E.C.U.

    You can get a good idea of the physical size of the engine from these pics. 10 lbs. of $h!t in a 5 lbs sack, as my Dad used to say!



    Last edited by Al Nyhus; 11-19-2019 at 09:47 AM.

  5. #455
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    Modified Pan

    Al

    Was that pan done inhouse or farmed out?....Looks pretty neat.

    Mort

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Nyhus View Post
    Jackie, the LT5 in your Chevelle is a ambitious project, but one that deserves to be done. You may want to look into the aftermarket frames that give you some more room up there.

    On this Cobra Jet, the chassis work was done by East Texas Race Cars (Vic Custer) in Nacogdoches, Texas. The engine was mounted to the front subframe, the headers built and then the entire subframe and engine was raised up from below. Coming out from above with the kicked out oil pan, around the steering shaft, etc. is a real challenge.

    We got the new piece in yesterday but not without some hiccups. I made some new dowel pins on the lathe from .625 o.d., .083 wall chrome moly tubing to extend through the mid plate that sandwiches between the block and the trans, while car owner Bob reworked the front of the left side of the block to accept the drivers side motor plate. There are some subtle differences between engines but all in all, the new piece will be a cleaner deal....plus it makes 200 h.p. more than the Roush engine. In the bottom photo, you can see that the new engine has the Holley individual coil-on-plug deal. A wiring harness needs to be done to trigger the coils from the existing E.C.U.

    You can get a good idea of the physical size of the engine from these pics. 10 lbs. of $h!t in a 5 lbs sack, as my Dad used to say!



    Al, there are a multitude of custom frames out now, some feature a 9 inch Ford on a 4 link similar to a A body, others a more conventional 4 link with a padard bar. They use rack and pinion steering.

    Here is one by Art Morrison

    https://www.artmorrison.com/chevelle.php

    I think I would be looking at a $60;000 project.
    Last edited by jackie schmidt; 11-20-2019 at 06:36 PM.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
    Al, there are a multitude of custom frames out now, some feature a 9 inch Ford on a 4 link similar to a A body, others a more conventional 4 link with a padard bar. They use rack and pinion steering. Here is one by Art Morrison

    https://www.artmorrison.com/chevelle.php

    I think I would be looking at a $60;000 project.
    One thing about the new breed of engines...given the efficiency of their heads, they can use quite a bit milder cams with some big departures on lobe separation angles, etc. Bottom line...they just don't have that sound that the early engines have.

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmort View Post
    Al, Was that pan done inhouse or farmed out?....Looks pretty neat. Mort
    It works well, to. It's an 'undocumented' pan that came from the Ford Motorsports backdoor program where there might be some connections. The one issue is that it requires the trans to come out before the engine is removed.

    The pan on the new engine is a Stef's. It fits the chassis better.

  9. #459
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    Looking at all these pictures, the first thing that comes to mind is: $peed cost$ money, how fa$t do you want to go?
    But then again, sure beats sitting in a bar with nothing to show for your efforts but a hurt head.

  10. #460
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    Going back together:



    Checking valve-to-piston clearance the old school way. Actually, we have more exotic tools to check this with the heads on. But since we've 'manipulated' the valve angle by how we cut the deck of the heads, the clay method gives a better idea of the radial clearance.



    Because of the rules, there's no real 'eye candy' in these N.H.R.A Stock Eliminator engines. Little details and picking away at this and that is where the gains come from. For example, we were able to reduce the rolling resistance of the rotating assembly even more this time around by futzing with various oil ring expanders and oil ring rails. Since there's nothing really available off-the-shelf for this...the ring mfgs get the heebie jeebies when we tell them how light we run the oil rings ...you have to make these packages up yourself. The end result was 1.5 lbs. less torque required to rotate the assembly. It will likely relax another .5 lb. or so once we get some dyno pulls on it.

  11. #461
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    I seem to remember a quote by Warren Johnson years ago.

    “Making 1500 HP is easy. Everybody does it. Making 1505 HP is the difficult part”

  12. #462
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    Ol' Beggs again.

    Hey Jackie

    Just looking at the pictures and reading descriptions of the hotrods that you, Al Nyhus and others build is scary !

    I find it all very interesting but even when I was a young man, I would have never ventured into such even if I could have afforded it. State of the art in the engines, transmissions, chassis, and other parts of these street monsters today is amazing.

    Just think; all these modern day, CNC manufactured race engines are direct descendants of the basic configuration of Henry Ford's V-8 ! Eight cylinder, Y configuration V-8's. Isn't that ironic and amazing? Old Henry was way ahead of his time.

    Keep up the good work, I appreciate all the pictures and articles you share with us on BR Central.

    Later,

    Gene Beggs

    Oh, BTW, is that 540 ci block in your car basically what they use to build top fuel dragsters?

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Beggs View Post
    Hey Jackie

    Just looking at the pictures and reading descriptions of the hotrods that you, Al Nyhus and others build is scary !

    I find it all very interesting but even when I was a young man, I would have never ventured into such even if I could have afforded it. State of the art in the engines, transmissions, chassis, and other parts of these street monsters today is amazing.

    Just think; all these modern day, CNC manufactured race engines are direct descendants of the basic configuration of Henry Ford's V-8 ! Eight cylinder, Y configuration V-8's. Isn't that ironic and amazing? Old Henry was way ahead of his time.

    Keep up the good work, I appreciate all the pictures and articles you share with us on BR Central.

    Later,

    Gene Beggs

    Oh, BTW, is that 540 ci block in your car basically what they use to build top fuel dragsters?
    Gene, the answer to the block question is no. Top fuel and a Funny Car blocks are special manufactured items from solid billets.

    Here is a YouTube video of one of Don Schumacher’s shops were they machine them.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j0sn5xBSe5A


    The block I used is called a Dart Big M. It is patterned after the big block Chevy, only with more mass everywhere and bores that will go all the way out to 4 5/8 bore. Mine is a 4 1/2 bore with a 4 1/4 stroke.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WX1giqSMn2Y

    The Dart Big M blocks are suitable for just about any high performance build up to 3000+ HP.
    Last edited by jackie schmidt; 12-13-2019 at 03:13 PM.

  14. #464
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    The Dart and other blocks have been a huge improvement in the performance game. In the past, we'd take a chance on a small block Chevy block, bore it, fill the water jackets to the level of the water pump holes with Hard Block, final hone it and hope for the best. Even filled, the walls would shake around and the routine was to put 30-50 passes on it and take it apart to hone it. Most of the time, it would take .003-.005 to make the bores round again. At best, the wall thickness wes about .125...potato chips.

    The Dart block I'm using has .280 thick cylinder walls. After 250 passes, it took less than .001 to make them all round again. This lets us run the piston-to-wall extremely close. That minimizes the piston rock at both ends of the stroke. Tight piston-to-wall minimizes ring flutter. Now that that's addressed, we back cut the rings more to lighten them up and minimize the back clearance behind them. Since that's done, we can now decrease the radial clearance on the rings. Now, we can run the deck clearance tight enough that the piston-to-head is no more than .001 or .002. This, in turn, picks up the piston speed when the plug fires....blah, blah, blah.
    Last edited by Al Nyhus; 12-14-2019 at 08:43 AM.

  15. #465
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    Technology Overload

    Jackie, I've spent hours watching the sites you provided on how the engine blocks, heads, cams, lifters etc., are made. Man, the drag racing world has come light years from its beginnings. It's a whole nuther' world !

    Looking at the equipment in those shops makes a gunsmith's tools look like toys. One thing I did notice was that sitting near all the machines and work areas were cans of the old standby,, WD-40 ! No mechanic could ever do without it.

    Thanks for sharing info with us rifle nuts.

    Later,

    Gene Beggs

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