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Thread: large or small ring Mausers?

  1. #1
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    large or small ring Mausers?

    Could someone explain the difference between the large and small ring mausers?

    Thanks from a beginner..

    mtnsmith

  2. #2
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    Cool Small rings are.........

    Pre-1898 (1891-2-3-5-6) and the receiver ring, where the barrel is installed is smaller in diamwter than on the 1898 version. Also, the flange on the bolt sleeve is smaller on all pre-98 bolts. Paul Mauser lost his right eye in a "testing accident", perhaps this is why the flange was improved in the '98. HTH.

  3. #3
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    The first of the large ring Mausers was actually a limited production takedown sporting rifle that came out in 1896, it shared many features with the later 1898 military action, but used a threaded firing pin and cocking piece rather than the more familar easy to remove type.
    The large ring was to provide a sturdier basis for its interupted thread takedown barrel.
    The large rings merit of extra strength was held over when the 98 action was designed.

    There were several post 98 small ring actions, such as the 98A artillery carbine of WW1 and the 1910 Mexican Mauser which aside from some 98 type features of the bolt was more like the 1895 rifle in other respects.

    There were actions with intermediate sized rings like the G33/40, and a couple of odd balls like the Eastern european copy of the 98A that coupled a small ring with the large ring sized barrel shank, resulting in a dangerously thin receiver wall, and the Turk Mauser clones with a small ring size barrel shank and a thick walled large ring receiver. The latter actions are often rebarreled using 1896 6.5X55 barrels to make very strong custom sporters.

  4. #4
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    Note the step in the side wall at the red arrows in the attachment below. This works in all but a few rare cases.

    Bruce
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
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    paul mauser lost his eye testing a semi auto rifle, not one of his bolt action designs.

  6. #6
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    The first answer is basically the correct answer as far as the generic use of the term is concerned.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcp View Post
    Note the step in the side wall at the red arrows in the attachment below. This works in all but a few rare cases.

    Bruce
    Nice.
    Is the 1931 marked Mexican Mauser a 1910 model?
    The later 1936 model shared many cosmetic features of the 1903 Springfield, and is another action popular from custom lightweight rifles.
    I believe both have a short action, the 1910 may have used the shortest action of the type, but I'm not that sure. I think the 1910 was an adaptation of a sporting rifle action meant for cartridges similar to the 300 Savage.

    PS
    I'd read that it was Paul Mauser's brother that lost an eye.
    Mauser did market a very advanced autoloader that was used by the German air core during the early days of WW1, alongside the slightly better known Mendoza autoloaders that had been manufactured in Switzerland for the Mexican government and diverted to Germany.

    There were in fact several very effective semi-auto battle rifles available during WW1 but few were ever issued due to the problems of mud in the trenches, difficulty of mass production, and generally poor quality of ammunition during most of that war.

    papapaul The first answer is basically the correct answer as far as the generic use of the term is concerned.
    Yes but the most interesting of the Mausers and those most sought these days don't fit into the general types and year models.

  8. #8
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    This is my Small ring, small thread 1909 Peruvian 98 Mauser. It will become a 250-3000. It was originally a large ring.

    You might check this link for more mauser facts.
    M98 STANDARD LENGTH ACTIONS #1 [-]







    I am going to group different actions by length, ring diameter, and barrel shank diameter. The first group will be Type I, these are the "most standard" Mausers. Probably 75% or more of all Mausers produced after 1898 will fall into this category. I am not going to list every model, that would take a book of it's own, but if your particular model is not listed, comparing the dimensions will place it into the correct category. So here are the dimensions for

    Type I:
    Action OAL: 8.750
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
    Bolt body length: 6.370
    Magazine length: 3.315
    Recvr ring dia: 1.410 large ring
    Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

    Some of the models that fall into Type I are:
    Chilean M1912, Steyr
    GEW 98, various mfr's
    Brazilian M1908/34, Brno
    VZ24, 98/22, 98/29, Brno
    M1908 Brazilian, DWM
    M1909 Argentine, DWM
    M24/30 Venezuelan, FN
    M1935 Peruvian, FN
    Standard Modell, Mauser Oberndorf
    K98k, various mfr's

    Remember that the above list is not all-inclusive, the truth is, MOST M98 Mausers fall into this category.


    Type II, standard length, small ring, small shank
    Action OAL: 8.750
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
    Bolt body length: 6.370
    Magazine length: 3.315
    Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
    Barrel shank dia: .980 small shank

    This is pretty much a Czechoslovakian design, the main members of this group are the VZ33 and the G33-40, a commercial version is the VZ47.


    Type III, standard length, small ring, large shank
    Action OAL: 8.750
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7,835
    Bolt body length: 6.370
    Magazine length: 3.315
    Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
    Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

    As you can see by comparing the receiver ring diameter and the barrel shank diameter, there is not a lot of meat left in this receiver! The main example is the Kar98, and for obvious reasons, it is not wise to rechamber these to a high pressure cartridge.


    Type IV, standard length, small ring, small shank, long magazine.
    Action OAL: 8.750
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
    Bolt body length: 6.370
    Magazine length: 3.400
    Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
    Barrel shank dia: .980 small shank

    These are mainly commercial models, they are identical to Type II, with the exception of a longer magazine to handle 30-06 length cartridges. Main examples are the Husqvarna commercial action, and the Brno ZG47.


    Type V, standard length, large ring, large shank, long magazine.
    Action OAL: 8.750
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
    Bolt body length: 6.370
    Magazine length: 3.400
    Recvr ring dia: 1.410 large ring
    Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

    This is a beefier version of the Type IV. It is typified by the late FN commercial actions.
    Curio and Relic Firearms Forum, Swedish Rifles page

    Re: M98 INTERMEDIATE LENGTH ACTIONS #2 [-]






    This is actually a fairly small group of models, the amount of headaches these cause (when trying to find a part or stock) is way out of proportion to the number of models. Most of these will have some part of the action shortened to save weight. Starting off with Type VI:

    Type VI, Oberndorf intermediate action
    Action OAL: 8.750
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
    Bolt body length: 6.165
    Magazine length: 3.115
    Receiver ring dia: 1.410, large ring
    Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

    I call this the Oberndorf intermediate action, as they are the only ones who produced it. Commonly encountered models include:
    1903 Turk
    1909 Peruvian
    1935 Argentine
    Oberndorf Commercial

    The 1903 Turk and the 1909 Peruvian also share some other qualities. They both have a very high clip bridge, and a long curved arm on the ejector box that puts pressure on a stripper clip loaded into the receiver, holding it in place. The 1935 Argentine and the Oberndorf commercial action do not have this.
    This type has a longer than normal receiver ring, and a longer than normal cocking piece, with a shorter than normal bolt body, hard to figure where the weight savings come in!
    The Oberndorf commercial action was also available in a small ring version, all other dimensions identical.


    Type VII, FN24 and Yugo actions
    Action OAL: 8.500
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
    Bolt body length: 6.115
    Magazine length: 3.232
    Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
    Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank

    This is the FN M24 action, and the Yugoslavian M48 series. I call this group the Yugoslavian intermediate action. There is also a Type VIIA, FN24 Mexican, see below.


    Type VIIA, FN24 Mexican
    Action OAL: 8.500
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
    Bolt body length: 6.165
    Magazine length: 3.232
    Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
    Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank

    I call the Type VIIA the Mexican large ring action. The only difference between the Type VII and VIIA is the length of the bolt body (0.050 difference).


    Type VIII, small ring Mexican
    Action OAL: 8.500
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
    Bolt body length: 6.080
    Magazine length: 3.118
    Recvr ring dia: 1.300, small ring
    Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

    The Type VIII has the shortest bolt body in this group. Common models are the Mexican M1910, and M1936. Either one can be found manufactured by FN or Fabrica de Armas in Mexico City.
    Curio and Relic Firearms Forum, Swedish Rifles page

    Re: LONG AND SHORT ACTIONS #3 [-]











    Now we are into the expensive stuff! The long actions and short actions are commercial only. The long actions are divided into 2 types, the "British" type and the French type. The British type are not necessarily made in England, but are usually chambered for British cartridges, such as the .416 Rigby or .404 Jeffery. The French type is even longer than the British type, but the French type is actually made in France.

    Type IX, British Type, aka M98 long, aka Commercial Magnum
    Action OAL: 9.150
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
    Bolt body length: 6.770
    Magazine length: 3.640/3.840
    Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
    Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank



    Type X, French Type, aka French Magnum, aka Brevex Magnum
    Action OAL: 9.240
    Recvr screws, center to center: 8.207
    Bolt body length: 6.740
    Magazine length: 3.900
    Recvr ring dia: 1.500, X-large ring
    Barrel shank dia: 1.141, X-large shank.

    Notice that the French magnum is larger in every dimension than the British magnum, but the French bolt is shorter by .030"



    Type XI, "True" short action, aka Commercial Kurz
    Action OAL: 8.125
    Recvr screws, center to center: 7.225
    Bolt body length: 5.760
    Magazine length: 2.725
    Recvr ring dia: 1.300, small ring
    Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

    These are very rare and expensive, and a collector's item on their own. Chambered for short cartridges such as the .250 Savage, they are so hard to come by that they are often made by cutting down a standard Type I M98 action. If you suspect you have one, look for a welded receiver just forward of the thumb cut. Bolts are usually welded just behind the aft end of the guide rib.
    Last edited by Butch Lambert; 12-07-2009 at 02:57 PM.

  9. #9
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    Cool Thanks, Butch, that was really...........

    educational. One of these days I'll get a book with pictures of all you've documented. That was VERY interesting. Thanks again!!

  10. #10
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    One of our shooting Buds, Randy Conder, has a Kurz. I envy him.
    Butch

  11. #11
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    Butch

    Back when I first got out of the Army, I wanted to build a Rifle. A local Gunstore had a "Santa Barbara Mauser" action. It was brand new. In the white.

    I sent the action to an old Gunsmith in Shreveport La named W.C. Womack. He put a Douglas barrel chambered in 30-06 on it. He also blued the barreled action. I bought a Fajen Stock, did all the work myself. I put a Timney Trigger on.

    That Rifle shot very good. I gave it to my oldest Brother, who still has it.

    Where were Santa Barbara Mausers made? I was always under the impression it was a totally aftermarket offerring.

    Also, I often wondered if someone took over the Gunshop of WC Womack. I remember, he did not call himself a Gunsmith, he called himself a "Rifle Smith"..........jackie
    Last edited by jackie schmidt; 12-08-2009 at 08:45 PM.

  12. #12
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    According to Frank De Haas, the Santa Barbara action was made in Spain. Parker Hale built its later sporting & target rifles on that action (after they ran out of refurbished army surplus).

  13. #13
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    Jackie,
    The Santa Barbara actions were made in Spain. They were very good. A few were heat treated too hard. An easy way to tell was the receiver ring was kinda reddish. I believe they were case hardened by flame and quenched.
    Butch

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