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Thread: Dogtown vs Varmint extreme bullets (204)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    4

    Dogtown vs Varmint extreme bullets (204)

    Does anyone know if these two bullets are made by the same manufacturer and who might have manufactured them. I have both bullets and in an attempt to determine if they were the same, i discovered that the Dogtown bullet is .555 long and the Varmint Extreme is .560 long. This seems to indicate two different bullets/manufacturers.

    Further investigation revealed that the Length to lands (in my gun) with the Dogtown was 2.333-4 and the length to lands with the varmint extreme was 2.338-9. This indicates that the ogive of the two bullets might be the same ie. .005 difference in the length to lands and .005 difference in bullet length. This might indicate the two bullets are made by the same manufacturer ie. the same bullet for both the Dogtown and varmint extreme.

    I do not have a comparator to determine the exact overall length to lands, but i used the stoney point tool. This is probably not quite as exact as a comparator would be.

    Also, has anyone shot the two bullets and compared them with the same load? (meaning everything the same except the bullet difference, seated with the same seating die setting).

    I know there are a lot of varmint shooters in the bench rest crowd and I thought maybe there has been some investigation and testing with these two bullets.
    Thanks
    Jay

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wild Nevada
    Posts
    486

    Exclamation Hornady

    I heard Hornady makes them

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    4
    Worker,

    I put this question out to three sites and your answer makes 2 votes for Hornady. I looked on the Hornady web site and they do not show a 34 gr 204 bullet. This of course doesn't mean that they didn't make them. I would think that if a manufacturer was going to manufacture a bullet for a retailer, they would prefer to use a design that they already had, but maybe it isn't such a big deal to change a little.

    The only ones that I could find that had a 34 grain bullet was Midway dogtown, Midsouth varmint extreme and winchester in loaded ammo. It wouldn't hurt my feeling at all if hornadu did make this bullet, I know their v-max is a pretty good bullet.

    Thanks for the reply,

    Jay

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Ct
    Posts
    373
    Actually they're both the same bullet and widely thought to be made by Nosler.
    Searching for confirmation on that will be tough.
    They're basically a backdoor no name bullet manufactured for resale by large suppliers under the name of thier choice.
    The only clue they come from Nosler is the black "Factory Sealed For Your Protection" tab that is an exact match to the one used in Nosler brand name packaging.

    FWIW there have been reports of some lots measuring an undersized .203 in diameter. You might want to check that.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
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    jo191145,


    Thanks for the reply. I have heard the Nosler brand as well as Hornady on these bullets. I think what I have actually heard is the Dogtown from Nosler and the varmint extreme from Hornady.

    It seems to me that either manufacturer should be a reasonable bullet as far as accuracy is concerned. I have been looking for info on, especially the varmint extreme for about three months. It seems that very little info is floating around in cyber land.

    It seems reasonable to think that both bullets come from the same manufacturer. Both are 34 gr and both hollow point.

    I hope that I can get reasonable accuracy (groups) as I purchased a bunch of them from Midsouth. Actally, when I found the bullets at Midsouth at the price they are, I found that I couldn't do without a .204. The bullets from Midsouth are not sealed with the "black tab" you refer to. Of course, they are packed 500 to the box. Different Packageing.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Ct
    Posts
    373
    Not sure what reasonable accuracy your looking for.
    The dogtowns are not noted for thier excellent grouping capabilities.

    Benchmark, H-4895 and Win 748 are some good powders to start.

    You won't hear Win 748 used often in the 204 but I've had excellent accuracy with it in several different barrels using 35 Bergers.
    Just enough carbon to coat the bore and prevent copper fouling but not enough to cause a loss in accuracy from carbon fouling.

    In my guns 29.2 gns of 748 seems to be the magic number for the 35's
    I use the dogtowns for economical foulers as I like five minimum down the tube before even thinking the barrel is settling in.
    They shoot pretty good for foulers with 29.2 but I suspect another .1 to.2 might improve them. Individual seating would help also I'm sure.

    If you try 748 work up to these loads as they're at or a touch over book max with velocity approaching 4000fps. Probably a little over 4000 if you go to 29.4. No pressure signs in my guns.
    Fed 205M or CCI-450 give best results.

    If you can't get them to group to your satisfaction you'll need the Bergers

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    SE Oklahoma
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    Heck, maybe they would share that info if we called them and asked them. As long as they are well made by reputable manufacture why keep it a secret?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    jo191145

    While I enjoy the shooting sports, I would not be considered amoung the top 2 or 3 in any group of 2 or 3.

    I would be considered a varmint "shooter at-er" rather than a target shooter and as such I use a considerable amount of ammo in this endevor.

    I don't spend a lot of time or ammo trying to get the very last .001 in group size. I don't have the equipment, skills or time to engage in this activity. My personal standard is if I can completely cover 4 shots of a 5 shot group with a dime, I am a pretty happy camper (majority of the time that is).

    The .204 is a new gun (Savage vlp) and a new cartridge for me. I have no experiance to draw on. I have a .223 that I have been using for squirrels and I have been using 50 gr tnt and H322 powder in that gun. I recently rebarreled this gun with a shilen barrel and have found a load that it likes pretty well, I may be forced to rethink my standards on acceptable group size.

    I hope to be able to use the Midsouth varmint extreme bullets and H322 for the new gun. So far I have only 50 shots thru the .204 of a arbitrarily selected "break-in" load and it is showing some promise with the Varmint extreme bullet and the H322 powder.


    muslmutt

    I have read a few posts on various forums where guys have tried to get the retailers to reveal who manufactured these bullets, but they aren' t telling. I guess it really doesn't make any difference who makes them if they work ok for the purpose. I suspect the retailers have some sort of non disclosure agreement with the manufacturer.

    Thanks to all for your input to this thread. Anyone else with comments?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2

    key ho

    Quote Originally Posted by rossco View Post
    Does anyone know if these two bullets are made by the same manufacturer and who might have manufactured them. I have both bullets and in an attempt to determine if they were the same, i discovered that the Dogtown bullet is .555 long and the Varmint Extreme is .560 long. This seems to indicate two different bullets/manufacturers.

    Further investigation revealed that the Length to lands (in my gun) with the Dogtown was 2.333-4 and the length to lands with the varmint extreme was 2.338-9. This indicates that the ogive of the two bullets might be the same ie. .005 difference in the length to lands and .005 difference in bullet length. This might indicate the two bullets are made by the same manufacturer ie. the same bullet for both the Dogtown and varmint extreme.

    I do not have a comparator to determine the exact overall length to lands, but i used the stoney point tool. This is probably not quite as exact as a comparator would be.

    Also, has anyone shot the two bullets and compared them with the same load? (meaning everything the same except the bullet difference, seated with the same seating die setting).

    I know there are a lot of varmint shooters in the bench rest crowd and I thought maybe there has been some investigation and testing with these two bullets.
    Thanks
    Jay

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2

    key ho

    I have Varmint extreme for my 50 and 55 gr. for my 223 and the Key ho.

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