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Thread: Es & sd

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Es & sd

    Other than consistent powder charge, neck tension, seating depth what are other most important considerations in obtaining low ES & SD?

  2. #2
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    There Can Be Only One

    After all the smoke and mirrors have cleared...... there is ONE secret to ES

    Weigh

    To

    The

    Individual

    Kernel

    Period

    End

    Of

    Story

    .

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    There Can Be Only One

    After all the smoke and mirrors have cleared...... there is ONE secret to ES

    Weigh

    To

    The

    Individual

    Kernel

    Period

    End

    Of

    Story

    .
    I think there is much more to this story....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    There Can Be Only One

    After all the smoke and mirrors have cleared...... there is ONE secret to ES

    Weigh

    To

    The

    Individual

    Kernel

    Period

    End

    Of

    Story

    .
    I have done that many times, however, it doesn't make any difference how precisely the rounds were charged. As a matter of fact I have found I get better ES & SD when I drop the powder rather than weighing it..

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmwphoto View Post
    I think there is much more to this story....
    I agree 100%

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinny View Post
    I agree 100%
    I agree also

  7. #7
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    You all are telling me you've weighed to the individual kernel?

    "weighing" with normal equipment like a Chargemaster is no better than throwing. In many cases it's worse.

    And have any of you ever GOT single digit ES?? I do it regularly on cases up to and including 100gr charges...... I do it as a matter of course, dozens of chambers.....

    If just one of you tell me you've actually DONE IT, on an electronic scale which differentiates individual grains, I'll apologize......profusely.....and say I'm WRONG.

    Just one of you.

    BTW, if you've done it, you should have an idea just how much a single kernel of your chosen powder is worth, velocitywise.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2019
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    836
    just remember the typical 5 shot 10 shot sample size used to produce an sd/es number is just not valid. the science is based on a large data set 1k, 10k..not 5. its a nice number when it is small and the group is small........but it not very scientific in our use

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    729
    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    You all are telling me you've weighed to the individual kernel?

    "weighing" with normal equipment like a Chargemaster is no better than throwing. In many cases it's worse.

    And have any of you ever GOT single digit ES?? I do it regularly on cases up to and including 100gr charges...... I do it as a matter of course, dozens of chambers.....

    If just one of you tell me you've actually DONE IT, on an electronic scale which differentiates individual grains, I'll apologize......profusely.....and say I'm WRONG.


    BTW, if you've done it, you should have an idea just how much a single kernel of your chosen powder is worth, velocitywise.
    And if you have done it with just one, not a matter of course but with one single chamber, I will apologize. The only difference between the collective US and you is you post more.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    You all are telling me you've weighed to the individual kernel?

    "weighing" with normal equipment like a Chargemaster is no better than throwing. In many cases it's worse.

    And have any of you ever GOT single digit ES?? I do it regularly on cases up to and including 100gr charges...... I do it as a matter of course, dozens of chambers.....

    If just one of you tell me you've actually DONE IT, on an electronic scale which differentiates individual grains, I'll apologize......profusely.....and say I'm WRONG.

    Just one of you.

    BTW, if you've done it, you should have an idea just how much a single kernel of your chosen powder is worth, velocitywise.
    I have found inconsistent neck tension affects es/sd more than one kernel of powder. I use a fx 120 scale.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBecigneul View Post
    And if you have done it with just one, not a matter of course but with one single chamber, I will apologize. The only difference between the collective US and you is you post more.
    I have no idea what you're attempting to communicate here

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdean View Post
    I have found inconsistent neck tension affects es/sd more than one kernel of powder. I use a fx 120 scale.
    OK, that scale is up to the job.

    My findings have been different

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsmithsr View Post
    just remember the typical 5 shot 10 shot sample size used to produce an sd/es number is just not valid. the science is based on a large data set 1k, 10k..not 5. its a nice number when it is small and the group is small........but it not very scientific in our use
    I shoot 100 to 600yds out my reloading room window, I have a dozen chronos including 2 Oehler43's and a fixtured acoustic target @ 100yds just to support my "$1000.00 Internet Bet" about bullets going to sleep.

    I weigh thousands of charges and routinely shoot everything except 6PPC over the chronos... I've got more weighed/chono'd shots documented on video than most people have ever fired.

  14. #14
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    Bill Calfee?

    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    You all are telling me you've weighed to the individual kernel?

    "weighing" with normal equipment like a Chargemaster is no better than throwing. In many cases it's worse.

    And have any of you ever GOT single digit ES?? I do it regularly on cases up to and including 100gr charges...... I do it as a matter of course, dozens of chambers.....

    If just one of you tell me you've actually DONE IT, on an electronic scale which differentiates individual grains, I'll apologize......profusely.....and say I'm WRONG.

    Just one of you.

    BTW, if you've done it, you should have an idea just how much a single kernel of your chosen powder is worth, velocitywise.
    Al, you're sounding a little like Bill Calfee here. You claim some wonderful results but no real hint at how you got there.

  15. #15
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    Aug 2004
    Location
    NY State
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    157

    Sngle Digit SD

    Shooting 6 BR
    Use Auto Trickler Gen 3 with 120 Electronic balance
    routinely get 3 SD-9 SD
    Scale is accurate to .02 gr.

    Occasionally have to add one kernel of powder, which for Varget ,weighs routinely within .02 gr . Adding the kernal this is done with a pair of micro surgery forceps.

    But it does not help me read the flags any better.

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