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Thread: 50y BR with Thomas HPX

  1. #1
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    Dec 2013
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    50y BR with Thomas HPX

    I do understand this is a rimfire forum, but I just wanted to share a little about whatís been going on in Air BR and see what you guys think.

    Let me be the first to say that air isnít going to surpass rimfire anytime soon, but we are putting together some, I believe, respectable performances. This rifle is shooting a 25.4 gr slug at 960 FPS. Typical velocity spreads for 25 shots is about 6-7 FPS. I can tighten that up more, but the rifle will consume more air. As is,you get 45 good shots on a 250 bar fill. The BC on this slug is about .085...so you can see that itís gonna drift more than a 40gr bullet. At 25y indoors, it will group .050Ē-.080Ē ctc for 25 shots. Itís very accurate and repeatable, but managing the wind is the key to decent scores.

    Here is 3 cards on the WRABF world card at 50y. This is inward scoring with 1/4Ē 10, 1/2Ē 9, etc using a .224Ē plug. These are not my best or worst. Fairly middle of the road for 4-8 mph fluttery conditions.

    246 15x
    245 8x
    246 17x
    óóóó
    737 40x

    Iím just curious what you guys think of this.

    Mike
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    Last edited by michaelthomas; 07-17-2020 at 02:13 PM.

  2. #2
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    Wow, this is rather impressive.
    Is this a 20 ?
    Back when it was the ticket I got an Anschutz/Zazadny FT rig but to see what guys like you have done in the precision air world has bee something to behold.......thanks for posting.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelthomas View Post
    I do understand this is a rimfire forum, but I just wanted to share a little about whatís been going on in Air BR and see what you guys think.

    Let me be the first to say that air isnít going to surpass rimfire anytime soon, but we are putting together some, I believe, respectable performances. This rifle is shooting a 25.4 gr slug at 960 FPS. Typical velocity spreads for 25 shots is about 6-7 FPS. I can tighten that up more, but the rifle will consume more air. As is,you get 45 good shots on a 250 bar fill. The BC on this slug is about .085...so you can see that itís gonna drift more than a 40gr bullet. At 25y indoors, it will group .050Ē-.080Ē ctc for 25 shots. Itís very accurate and repeatable, but managing the wind is the key to decent scores.

    Here is 3 cards on the WRABF world card at 50y. This is inward scoring with 1/4Ē 10, 1/2Ē 9, etc using a .224Ē plug. These are not my best or worst. Fairly middle of the road for 4-8 mph fluttery conditions.

    246 15x
    245 8x
    246 17x
    óóóó
    737 40x

    Iím just curious what you guys think of this.

    Mike
    Mike,

    Air rifles are very accurate and fun to shoot.

    Years ago we had a shooting game called BR 50. The guy that started this game lived in California.

    He became interested in air rifles so he devised a system to allow Rimfireís to shoot against air rifles. Air rifles shot the same target as the Rimfireís but the Rimfireís shot at 50 yards and the air rifles shot at 35 yards. Not many liked it and the whole thing died.

    I guess the point is one can like both but they are different disciplines.

    That pretty good shooting. You are certainly welcome over on the rimfire dark side!

    TKH

  4. #4
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    Thanks....This is 22 caliber.

    I had never heard of BR50....thats interesting. I can see how that wouldnít really take off.

    Mike

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelthomas View Post
    Thanks....This is 22 caliber.

    I had never heard of BR50....thats interesting. I can see how that wouldnít really take off.

    Mike
    It took off just fine. It was the forerunner to ARA. I assume you have heard of ARA. It wasnít until the air rifles were bought in it died.
    I think most of the air rifles that they shot were also . 22 cal.

    TKH

  6. #6
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    We are saying the same thing....I meant that trying to shoot air and Rimfire together with different distances to the same target was not going to go.

    Mike

  7. #7
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    That's impressive. I love airguns and have been paying attention to yours since some excellent explanatory material that you posted here. You should add some of that to your website, which is a little light on details. Nice work, nice shooting!

    GsT

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    It took off just fine. It was the forerunner to ARA. I assume you have heard of ARA. It wasnít until the air rifles were bought in it died.
    I think most of the air rifles that they shot were also . 22 cal.

    TKH
    I suspect you'd likely recall/agree, Larry was a bit of a wild man and toward the end Of .22 he was going nuts, railing against a lot of ammunition issues.....consistency was marginal at best, among other issues.
    A big reason for the change, Larry simply threw in the towel and went to airguns as a way to sidestep the whole issue but by then, he'd aggregated so many It became the dawn of IR 50/50 under Milt & Helen Cook and ARA.
    Remember when Tony, she ran the thing with an iron fist, even Milt was a little scared.

    We were just starting to shoot a little BR 50 when the whole deal turned upside down.
    Remember, this was all pre internet so part of the deal was praying you could source something like ELEY from a local shop, and then you had to break out your rim gauge and sort it all ......such fun.
    Also compressed air rifles just barely began to show and lots of guys were shooting springers still.
    Last edited by tim; 07-18-2020 at 11:19 AM.

  9. #9
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    Iíve only just begun air rifle and so what is new to air rifle is the new norm for. One would be surprised at the pressures and the velocities one can attain with an air rifle. But I still like rimfire. Better? Maybe not. Depends on the next match a shoot. Those little pellets really move around on a breeze and can frustrate you. I really should decide on a discipline to shoot. Centerfire, rimfire, and now air are taking my youth from me.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelthomas View Post
    Thanks....This is 22 caliber.

    I had never heard of BR50....thats interesting. I can see how that wouldnít really take off.

    Mike
    Mike,
    Took a while to circle back, but a couple questions.
    Understand the whole 22 pellets vs wind, etc. but these days have 22's surpassed 177's in pure accuracy?
    Sounds like the whole world of rimfire match barrels is open to you. What's the hot ticket on barrels you're fitting ?

    Thanks again.
    Tim

  11. #11
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    Yes...the high power 22s can hang with the best 177 in accuracy. The 25.4 gr pellets are something special. Get them up to 900 or so and they shine. The current slugs are a bit of a mystery to me at the moment. Despite having a BC nearly double that of a pellet...they donít actually exhibit that advantage in the wind. They are plenty accurate, but have a LOT of vertical. If itís one of those days where the wind is cycling back and forth from 11:00 to 1:00....they are an absolute handful compared to pellets. At 50y, you can see 5/8Ē vertical difference when it crosses over. Even full value cross winds push the things at near 30-40 degree slant. They are nice in certain conditions...but right now I would still use a pellet.

    Mike

  12. #12
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    Itís been 3 months or so since I last posted about this. Been working very hard in the off hours to get a solid shooting slug setup. I finally set about making my own Bullets/slugs. After many designs I have a 40gr boattail that is very accurate and predictable in any kind of wind from a Muller 4 MI barrel. Shot my first 3 ARA cards yesterday in mostly a 6 mph tail wind jigging from 5-7. Didnít break any records but Iím relatively pleased with my 2150 average. I made a lot of mistakes... mostly due to a lack of patience, but felt like the gun was acting appropriately. Iím confident a good Rimfire shooter could easily add a few hundred points. I had nothing wild.

    Now that I have a good slug...swaging my own is 2.5c per shot and I no longer have to depend on the quality control of a large manufacturer. Iím excited to continue the improvements.

    Mike
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelthomas View Post
    Itís been 3 months or so since I last posted about this. Been working very hard in the off hours to get a solid shooting slug setup. I finally set about making my own Bullets/slugs. After many designs I have a 40gr boattail that is very accurate and predictable in any kind of wind from a Muller 4 MI barrel. Shot my first 3 ARA cards yesterday in mostly a 6 mph tail wind jigging from 5-7. Didnít break any records but Iím relatively pleased with my 2150 average. I made a lot of mistakes... mostly due to a lack of patience, but felt like the gun was acting appropriately. Iím confident a good Rimfire shooter could easily add a few hundred points. I had nothing wild.

    Now that I have a good slug...swaging my own is 2.5c per shot and I no longer have to depend on the quality control of a large manufacturer. Iím excited to continue the improvements.

    Mike
    Very impressive.

    Can you explain the process of making your own pellets.

    TKH

  14. #14
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    Thanks...these are basically bullets...although they seem to be called slugs in the airgun world. Itís just a swage die that I made on my turning center. You precut pieces of .187Ē lead wire with a chopping tool that has a stop on it. The lead wire is placed into the nose die and pressed with the boattail tail punch. There is a small bleed hole and a fixed stop on the die so the excess squirts out and leaves you with a slug that is within less than 1/10 gr in weight each time.

    I canít seem to post a video of the process.

    Here is a pic. Despite the sleek appearance, the 49y BC is .142.

    Mike
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    Last edited by michaelthomas; 11-07-2020 at 09:13 PM.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=michaelthomas;839368]Thanks...these are basically bullets...although they seem to be called slugs in the airgun world. Itís just a swage die that I made on my turning center. You precut pieces of .187Ē lead wire with a chopping tool that has a stop on it. The lead wire is placed into the nose die and pressed with the boattail tail punch. There is a small bleed hole and a fixed stop on the die so the excess squirts out and leaves you with a slug that is within less than 1/10 gr in weight each time.

    I canít seem to post a video of the process.

    Here is a pic. Despite the sleek appearance, the 49y BC is .142.

    Mike[/QUOTE

    Mike,
    That is cool. Do you plan to sell these dyes/tools to others so they can do the same.
    If so, Iím interested.
    TKH

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