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Thread: Pre-Drill & Boring A Chamber

  1. #31
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    BTW.... IMO it's actually hard to get ANY two setups to repeat.

    But In this case it's pretty easy to do because the methodology is pretty foolproof and an easy setup compared to some.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    OK, why this fiddling about with making a fake action face? That's not "repeating" that's just checking for something else entirely.


    But that aside.... since it DOES in fact go on the gun, and it will be indexed as such, why isn't is relevant if I take the barrel out, COVER ALL THE MARKS, or better yet, pull a barrel out of the pile that was marked 4yrs ago.... put 'er back into setup from square one and see if it repeats?
    No, it has nothing to do with the gun. It has to do with proving your work, proving your methods. How do you know the high spot is really the high spot unless you prove it out? You donít think a 1-1/4Ē bar 20Ē long isnít getting bent between spiders? If you can do my test, and it proves out repeatable, then youíve proven your setup. Otherwise, al you are proving is you can clock a thread/shoulder. You havenít proven the muzzle attitude.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon Prec. View Post
    Iím going to LOL at claims of getting ďgoodĒ runout measurements 6Ē into the bore. And at 10Ē.....

    OK, fair enough..... but since't I can find 'em over and over it must be "good enough"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    BTW.... IMO it's actually hard to get ANY two setups to repeat.

    But In this case it's pretty easy to do because the methodology is pretty foolproof and an easy setup compared to some.
    Iím not going to lose sleep waiting on the unedited video proof.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon Prec. View Post
    No, it has nothing to do with the gun. It has to do with proving your work, proving your methods. How do you know the high spot is really the high spot unless you prove it out? You donít think a 1-1/4Ē bar 20Ē long isnít getting bent between spiders? If you can do my test, and it proves out repeatable, then youíve proven your setup. Otherwise, al you are proving is you can clock a thread/shoulder. You havenít proven the muzzle attitude.
    I absolutely know it isn't getting bent between the spiders. I shift the left end and take my readings on the right end.

    Your method proves exactly nothing.....it's a complete waste of time. OBVIOUSLY if I cut threads on a wobbly bar it'll be out of line. I can predict 100yds away where the barrel's pointed..... obviously if I cut the threads out of line with the end of the barrel (which is exactly what I'm doing) then screw it into something it'll track. I'd perform your test in your own shop, on your equipment, on one condition...... I'll fly in bringing my own tooling, meet you at the shop, do EXACTLY what you say as you watch, and then, if it tracks you cover my expenses plus a grand.

    If it doesn't, BY YOUR STANDARDS.... I'll pay you.

    I haven't got time to do silly stuff for free, to prove the obvious.


    BUT..... on the other hand, I could use another Panda tenon gage. Would you agree that if I make a tenon gage and while it's in the lathe video screwing a half-dozen already done barrels in and checking clocking would THAT be valid??? Seems like the same thing to me?

  6. #36
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    On the other hand.... I might could do it your way altho it will be a very long video.

    If I talk myself into another tenon gauge I will chamber a barrel first, then build the gauge and while it's in the lathe, screw the barrel in. I can build the gauge over-sized so it won't slip in the chuck with the barrel hanging in it, turn it down later while I'm finishing the other end.

    You are correct, it is a test I've never done.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon Prec. View Post
    And while weíre LOLing ďI set the barrel thru the headstock pivoting it on the point where I set the leade. This means I've got 10 inches of barrel I can take measurements in. 6 good inches. I don't attempt to "verify it" Ē
    Iím going to LOL at claims of getting ďgoodĒ runout measurements 6Ē into the bore. And at 10Ē.....
    I really like the idea of pivoting thru the HS over the leade. Iím close each time, but never have measured to verify during setup. Thanks

  8. #38
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    al,
    you are getting pulled into a swamp.
    the guy likes posting.
    it spreads his company name

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    On the other hand.... I might could do it your way altho it will be a very long video.

    If I talk myself into another tenon gauge I will chamber a barrel first, then build the gauge and while it's in the lathe, screw the barrel in. I can build the gauge over-sized so it won't slip in the chuck with the barrel hanging in it, turn it down later while I'm finishing the other end.

    You are correct, it is a test I've never done.
    You very well may find what you think is TDC in the lathe really is TDC when not being affected by chucks at each end. Iím not saying you wonít, but itís a simple test to verify your concept. But, if your TDC does not match, or you have a different amount of runout at the muzzle then you did in the lathe, itís safe to say the barrel is being bent between chucks/spiders.
    Last edited by Rubicon Prec.; 01-23-2020 at 10:52 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon Prec. View Post
    You very well may find what you think is TDC in the lathe really is TDC when not being affected by chucks at each end. Iím not saying you wonít, but itís a simple test to verify your concept. But, if your TDC does not match, or you have a different amount of runout at the muzzle then you did in the lathe, itís safe to say the barrel is being bent between chucks/spiders.
    This I can totally get with.

    And many setups I've seen and spoken with folks about they absolutely ARE bending barrels.... I'm simply stating baldly that I'm not. I've redone my methodology 10 times, I'm a ways away from "copying Gordie's method" but I give full credit to him both for coming up with a real way to indicate deep, and for thinking of the usage he's put it to.

    It has been and will always be "Gordie's Method" to me.

    My results have been startling... enough so that right now if I couldn't do my own work I'd feel seriously handicapped. And I have some seriously good stuff against which to compare.

  11. #41
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    It's really quite amazing how easy it is for a barrel to actually bend. A dial indicator, a well suppored breach end of a blank, a little finger pressure applied on the opposite end and watch the indicator showing you just how easy it is to bend.
    Last edited by Louis.J; 01-23-2020 at 05:44 PM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    This I can totally get with.

    And many setups I've seen and spoken with folks about they absolutely ARE bending barrels.... I'm simply stating baldly that I'm not. I've redone my methodology 10 times, I'm a ways away from "copying Gordie's method" but I give full credit to him both for coming up with a real way to indicate deep, and for thinking of the usage he's put it to.

    It has been and will always be "Gordie's Method" to me.

    My results have been startling... enough so that right now if I couldn't do my own work I'd feel seriously handicapped. And I have some seriously good stuff against which to compare.
    Enough. Where is the video? I am ready to learn. Please don't say, "adjust the outboard screw just a little bit" ........

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis.J View Post
    It's really quite amazing how easy is for a barrel to actually bend. A dial indicator, a well suppored breach end of a blank, a little finger pressure applied on the opposite end and watch the indicator showing you just how easy it to bend.

    This is exactly I describe all steel as "rubber" and all fitments and pressure points as "changing the loading"

    Something as simple as sucking the screws down onto AL pillars on a typical "bedding job" isn't so very-very simple to my way of thinking

    And folks assuming that because a highly accurate 6PPC setup will shoot really good with less than a hunnerd thou abutment on the barrel shank, a 300WSM should do the same.

    And I see some of the hideous setups folks use to clamp receiver rings for removing barrels and all's I can think of is "Chinese Finger Traps much??"

    yup

    steel=rubber


    me

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post

    And folks assuming that because a highly accurate 6PPC setup will shoot really good with less than a hunnerd thou abutment on the barrel shank, a 300WSM should do the same.
    me
    Isnít that about what a factory Remington 700 has?

  15. #45
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    Chambering the Gordy method or at the throat and muzzle.

    Here is how I see it. I know I am not even close to being a machinist. I see it like a teeter-totter if one indicates at the pivot (the throat of the chamber) TDC then at the muzzle end TDC and knows that the very breech end has runout. They say first drill out then boring corrects the lineament of the chamber. But like a teeter-totter if there is runout on one end (throat to breech for a couple inches) then there has to be run out forward of the pivot (throat) for the same amount as the breech had. Now if you use the Gordy method, indicate throat TDC then at the very breech end TDC you straighten out (chamber throat) of the teeter-totter and then bore in front of the pivot point is also straighten out but the muzzle end now has the run out and for myself I have never seen it to be a problem on target or sighting the barrel in. I know I am stepping in a puddle.

    Chet

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