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Thread: Voodoo Rifle Accuracy

  1. #16
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    Dec 2017
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    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by dryfly24 View Post
    Biggest impediment to learning new things is thinking there is nothing new to learn. Keep shaking the tree Mike. . .
    Very true statement DF....

    Thanks,
    MB

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    emporia ks.
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    Smile voodoo actions

    There is quite a stir over on snipers hide about these and being rimfire curious I try to keep up with new things. I've tried to find pics of the actions online but I'm only finding advertising photos. Nothing that shows anything about the internals or how things go together and work. That sounds overly simplified ,I know how they work I'm curious how yours works. I'm a follower of rimfire benchrest and always curious about new products. I'd like to see you put a benchrest barrel on there with a tuner and lets see what it will do .

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by scasa View Post
    There is quite a stir over on snipers hide about these and being rimfire curious I try to keep up with new things. I've tried to find pics of the actions online but I'm only finding advertising photos. Nothing that shows anything about the internals or how things go together and work. That sounds overly simplified ,I know how they work I'm curious how yours works. I'm a follower of rimfire benchrest and always curious about new products. I'd like to see you put a benchrest barrel on there with a tuner and lets see what it will do .
    I appreciate your interest and can answer any questions you may have. I enjoy Sniper's Hide because the readership there exhibits the same genuine curiosity you're displaying here, so ask whatever you'd like and I'll walk you through what the Vudoo is.

    Thanks Scasa,
    MB

  4. #19
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    Jul 2013
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    emporia ks.
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    actions

    What I'm most curious is are the receivers threaded for the barrel and the locking lugs, cocking cams, sear arrangement ,primary extraction and so on . I make some rimfire actions and I like to see what others are doing. I'm pretty much set on what I like to build with the exception of having a front locking lug .22 maybe someday I'll figure it out. If you have some pictures I'd sure like to see them. I also wonder on why you chose a cut rifled barrel. I guess that's a question.


    Thanks Les

  5. #20
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    upstate, N.Y.
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    Sounds pretty cool, how about posting a couple images of your actions. Love to see'em.
    There are plenty of images around showing their actions, bolt, lugs etc.

  6. #21
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    Dec 2017
    Location
    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by scasa View Post
    What I'm most curious is are the receivers threaded for the barrel and the locking lugs, cocking cams, sear arrangement ,primary extraction and so on . I make some rimfire actions and I like to see what others are doing. I'm pretty much set on what I like to build with the exception of having a front locking lug .22 maybe someday I'll figure it out. If you have some pictures I'd sure like to see them. I also wonder on why you chose a cut rifled barrel. I guess that's a question.


    Thanks Les
    Yessir, the receiver is threaded, the major is 1.062 and it's a true mid-lock. There are no lug ways forward of the locking abutments in the receiver. The 40X and true clones of the 40X all have lug ways forward of the locking abutments. The V-22 and variants of the V-22 such as the BR/F-Class actions, are not 40X clones. I'll post pics of various parts later tomorrow.

    Just a couple reasons for using cut rifled barrels is they're more precise than button barrels and there's no stress induced by the cut rifling process. But, of the many reasons for choosing them, I have to say the biggest reason is many believe they won't perform as a rimfire barrel. I don't subscribe to this belief....

    MB

  7. #22
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    254
    Quote Originally Posted by DEFTI RIMFIRE View Post
    Yessir, the receiver is threaded, the major is 1.062 and it's a true mid-lock. There are no lug ways forward of the locking abutments in the receiver. The 40X and true clones of the 40X all have lug ways forward of the locking abutments. The V-22 and variants of the V-22 such as the BR/F-Class actions, are not 40X clones. I'll post pics of various parts later tomorrow.

    Just a couple reasons for using cut rifled barrels is they're more precise than button barrels and there's no stress induced by the cut rifling process. But, of the many reasons for choosing them, I have to say the biggest reason is many believe they won't perform as a rimfire barrel. I don't subscribe to this belief....

    MB
    Please permit me to ask two questions. Are your extractor/ejector located at 180 degrees and do either of them contact the the case while at battery?

    TKH

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    Please permit me to ask two questions. Are your extractor/ejector located at 180 degrees and do either of them contact the the case while at battery?

    TKH
    The extractors in the repeaters are 180 degrees apart and neither contact the case head while the bolt is closed. The extractor timing is such that, as the bolt is cammed closed, the extractors let go of the case head. As the bolt is opened, the timing dictates the extractors re-grip the case head.

    MB

  9. #24
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    May 2010
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    254
    Quote Originally Posted by DEFTI RIMFIRE View Post
    The extractors in the repeaters are 180 degrees apart and neither contact the case head while the bolt is closed. The extractor timing is such that, as the bolt is cammed closed, the extractors let go of the case head. As the bolt is opened, the timing dictates the extractors re-grip the case head.

    MB
    I am very sorry you weren't treated well at the bench rest matches you attended. I assure you that is not the norm.

    We bench rest shooters are so few we really try to make new comers welcome.

    Quite normally if someone shows up "just to watch" they are offered use of a rifle, rest, and ammo to give it a try.

    As for the shooting done after the clock starts, but before the scoring targets are shot, is not just to warm up the barrel.

    Most bench rest shooters clean their barrel before every target, and certainly before every match. The shooting is done to re establish the wax track in the barrel.

    It may take 10 - 25 rounds or more before the rifles shoots to maximum accuracy.

    When shooting indoors, another reason for shooting many rounds before the scoring targets is to establish range conditions. Or said another way, establish where the "miss" is at.

    Quite normally there is a push (movement) that sends bullets off the point of aim. This push can be simply sighting errors (mirage), but it can also be air movement within the building.

    Many times the push will recur through out the target often enough you can cheat to one side or high/ low and keep hitting the 10 ring. However if there is a lot of movement in the building it can be completely unpredictable.

    This mirage/air movement effects point of impact differently depending on the bench location.

    Yes, there really is some benches better than others even indoors, but this changes depending on what and where the action is happening in the building.

    It is rare when one can use one point of aim all the way through a target.

    Rimfire bench rest is a great game, but it is an acquired taste. Once you shoot it enough it is hard to do anything else. Hope you will join us again sometime.

    TKH

  10. #25
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    Jul 2013
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    emporia ks.
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    Thanks to TKH

    I appreciate your input . I only got to shoot one match before I moved back to ks but I had fun and your right everyone was very helpful to someone just starting out. It's a very addictive sport.

  11. #26
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    Sep 2016
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    18

    Cut rifled barrels

    Mr. Voodoo....what make of cut rifled barrels do you use...any special twist or size?

    Thanks,

    High Noon

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonykharper View Post
    I am very sorry you weren't treated well at the bench rest matches you attended. I assure you that is not the norm.

    We bench rest shooters are so few we really try to make new comers welcome.

    Quite normally if someone shows up "just to watch" they are offered use of a rifle, rest, and ammo to give it a try.

    As for the shooting done after the clock starts, but before the scoring targets are shot, is not just to warm up the barrel.

    Most bench rest shooters clean their barrel before every target, and certainly before every match. The shooting is done to re establish the wax track in the barrel.

    It may take 10 - 25 rounds or more before the rifles shoots to maximum accuracy.

    When shooting indoors, another reason for shooting many rounds before the scoring targets is to establish range conditions. Or said another way, establish where the "miss" is at.

    Quite normally there is a push (movement) that sends bullets off the point of aim. This push can be simply sighting errors (mirage), but it can also be air movement within the building.

    Many times the push will recur through out the target often enough you can cheat to one side or high/ low and keep hitting the 10 ring. However if there is a lot of movement in the building it can be completely unpredictable.

    This mirage/air movement effects point of impact differently depending on the bench location.

    Yes, there really is some benches better than others even indoors, but this changes depending on what and where the action is happening in the building.

    It is rare when one can use one point of aim all the way through a target.

    Rimfire bench rest is a great game, but it is an acquired taste. Once you shoot it enough it is hard to do anything else. Hope you will join us again sometime.

    TKH
    Thanks TKH, I appreciate your perspective, but to be more clear, I didn't say I wasn't treated well at the matches; I stated, in so many words, that I wasn't a fan of the drama. Various individuals/groups seemed to find it really easy and somehow satisfying to speak ill of other individuals/groups and I personally find that very hard to trust. I also see it played out on the BR forums, which aren't welcoming to new/inexperienced BR shooters. Too many remarks/comments are veiled in arrogance and some don't actually bother to veil the arrogance at all. I couple this activity with the outright conjecture involved in most technical discussions and have chosen to step back from the BR forums and approach BR my own way.

    I get what you're saying about dealing with ambient conditions and this is where I struggle with the "demands" of BR. These ambient conditions are the same for all disciplines of shooting and experience is the greatest of all tools when it comes to a higher level of performance, not gear. When I hear/read comments as I've read here about Vudoo platforms not being up to par for BR shooting, it's possibly true in some areas of platform execution (stock type, bedding, tuner, etc), but people that purchase a Vudoo aren't experienced BR shooters and aren't looking for certain refinements in execution of the platform itself. From a design standpoint, the Vudoo action is designed and made just as well and in some cases better based on the BR actions I've looked at. This is the area where it's important to keep the discussion relevant, as most BR shooters making such comments haven't actually seen or shot a Vudoo but choose to speak factually without having any facts....clearly comparing apples to oranges.

    What you're saying about laying down a fresh wax track makes perfect sense now, but wasn't the explanation I received at one of the matches I attended. Not sure if I asked someone lacking experience as it's possible he may have been doing it without really knowing why. I appreciate you explaining that, as I generally don't clean a barrel until accuracy falls off, around the 2000 round mark depending on where I've been shooting.

    I fully intend to participate in BR. I've developed an action specific to the discipline and the rifles themselves will be built differently than our repeaters. I've also developed my own trigger within direct collaboration with Flavio Fare (part of the design is mine, other parts are mechanisms he was already using). I'm testing various barrel designs, none of them button, and the results I'm seeing are quite interesting and the coolest thing is, there's actual data. There's also a lot of interest in F-Class which I believe I'm more interested in.

    Thanks again TKH, I appreciate you taking the time to offer a perspective that's easy to latch on to.

    MB

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Connecticut
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    11
    Quote Originally Posted by High Noon View Post
    Mr. Voodoo....what make of cut rifled barrels do you use...any special twist or size?

    Thanks,

    High Noon
    We use our own along with Bartlein and Krieger....most all are the standard 16 twist, but I have other twist rates in testing. My favorite so far based on the results is a single digit twist.

    MB
    Last edited by DEFTI RIMFIRE; 02-25-2020 at 08:52 PM.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    18

    ......single digit twist

    Mr. Vudoo,

    Can you please explain single digit twist?

    Thanks!
    High Noon

  15. #30
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    254
    Quote Originally Posted by DEFTI RIMFIRE View Post
    Thanks TKH, I appreciate your perspective, but to be more clear, I didn't say I wasn't treated well at the matches; I stated, in so many words, that I wasn't a fan of the drama. Various individuals/groups seemed to find it really easy and somehow satisfying to speak ill of other individuals/groups and I personally find that very hard to trust. I also see it played out on the BR forums, which aren't welcoming to new/inexperienced BR shooters. Too many remarks/comments are veiled in arrogance and some don't actually bother to veil the arrogance at all. I couple this activity with the outright conjecture involved in most technical discussions and have chosen to step back from the BR forums and approach BR my own way.

    I get what you're saying about dealing with ambient conditions and this is where I struggle with the "demands" of BR. These ambient conditions are the same for all disciplines of shooting and experience is the greatest of all tools when it comes to a higher level of performance, not gear. When I hear/read comments as I've read here about Vudoo platforms not being up to par for BR shooting, it's possibly true in some areas of platform execution (stock type, bedding, tuner, etc), but people that purchase a Vudoo aren't experienced BR shooters and aren't looking for certain refinements in execution of the platform itself. From a design standpoint, the Vudoo action is designed and made just as well and in some cases better based on the BR actions I've looked at. This is the area where it's important to keep the discussion relevant, as most BR shooters making such comments haven't actually seen or shot a Vudoo but choose to speak factually without having any facts....clearly comparing apples to oranges.

    What you're saying about laying down a fresh wax track makes perfect sense now, but wasn't the explanation I received at one of the matches I attended. Not sure if I asked someone lacking experience as it's possible he may have been doing it without really knowing why. I appreciate you explaining that, as I generally don't clean a barrel until accuracy falls off, around the 2000 round mark depending on where I've been shooting.

    I fully intend to participate in BR. I've developed an action specific to the discipline and the rifles themselves will be built differently than our repeaters. I've also developed my own trigger within direct collaboration with Flavio Fare (part of the design is mine, other parts are mechanisms he was already using). I'm testing various barrel designs, none of them button, and the results I'm seeing are quite interesting and the coolest thing is, there's actual data. There's also a lot of interest in F-Class which I believe I'm more interested in.

    Thanks again TKH, I appreciate you taking the time to offer a perspective that's easy to latch on to.

    MB
    " I generally don't clean a barrel until accuracy falls off, around the 2000 round mark depending on where I've been shooting."

    Most bench rest barrels are chambered short, meaning there will be from .100 to .200 bullet jam into the lands. This means our barrels tend to build a carbon ring at the mouth of the lead rather quickly.
    Many can only shoot 150-200 rounds before this carbon ring starts to build, starts to resize bullets, and makes bolt closing hard. Therefore we clean to remove this carbon ring often.

    We have also experimented with various twist rates. Slow twist, fast twist, gain twist, etc. etc. No one I know of found the panacea.

    In general I learned fast twist, below 15 per inch doesn't make better accuracy, slow twist above 17 can shoot killer in hot humid conditions. There was a time I carried different twist barrels to a match. When the temp got above 90 I would go to my killer 17.5 twist. For awhile I thought I was doing something but after two years of data turns out I didn't really gain anything. But when I was doing it I felt good about it.

    I do not want to discourage you from experimenting. You may find something we overlooked. But I would suggest there may be better areas to spend resources.

    TKH

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