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Thread: Who cleans to bare metal?

  1. #1
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    Who cleans to bare metal?

    Iím a little confused about cleaning right now. Iíve been bore scoping all my rifle barrels after shooting them and cleaning and always noticed traces of copper in the grooves and maybe a little in the lands. I try to get all the carbon out but do I really need to worry about all the copper? Thanks in advance guys

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Iím a little confused about cleaning right now. Iíve been bore scoping all my rifle barrels after shooting them and cleaning and always noticed traces of copper in the grooves and maybe a little in the lands. I try to get all the carbon out but do I really need to worry about all the copper? Thanks in advance guys
    ďAllĒ can often be an elusive term. That said, copper tends to promote more copper so while it sounds like you have less than problematic fouling, with todayís solvents, bare metal is attainable.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Iím a little confused about cleaning right now. Iíve been bore scoping all my rifle barrels after shooting them and cleaning and always noticed traces of copper in the grooves and maybe a little in the lands. I try to get all the carbon out but do I really need to worry about all the copper? Thanks in advance guys
    What do you suppose that squeaky clean barrel looks like after the first couple of shots?

    I say that because I follow Kruegerís recommendation from years back.

    Their cut rifled barrels have extremely small lengthways cut marks. It is a natural product of the cut rifling.

    These small lines get filled with copper wash, carbon, or what ever.

    Donít clean it until every smidgeon is gone, because after the first shot, itís right back in there.

    Remember, Matches are not shot with squeaky clean barrels.

    I havenít told this story in a while, so now would be a good time.

    Some years back, at a Nationals in Midland, we were getting ready to shoot the Sporter 100 the next morning. Several of us were discussing the subject of cleaning. A bore scope was produced and we were all invited to bring our clean rifles over and have a look.

    Guess which rifle, by the borescope, was no where near as clean as everybody thought it should be.Mine.

    I was told get after that thing with JB, ammonia, or what ever it took.

    I didnít. It was shooting just with my regular regiment, which is brush about 10 strokes with nothing but Butches, then run enough wet patches through until they are clean, let soak for about 10 minutes, and dry it with clean patches.

    Guess who won the yardage that next morning.
    Last edited by jackie schmidt; 11-29-2019 at 12:03 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Iím a little confused about cleaning right now. Iíve been bore scoping all my rifle barrels after shooting them and cleaning and always noticed traces of copper in the grooves and maybe a little in the lands. I try to get all the carbon out but do I really need to worry about all the copper? Thanks in advance guys
    Ed Shilen said something to the effect of "Clean when your rifle quits shooting, and only clean it to the point that accuracy returns". He did not believe that you needed to get your barrel spotlessly clean, and in factory barrels, found spotless to be undesirable.

    Considering Mr. Shilen's bona fides as a barrel maker, gunsmith, and shooter, prolly some sound advice right there.

    Justin

  5. #5
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    I clean to bare metal practically every time in all my rifles except a few hunting rifles with alligator skin in the throat. I just do it because it's easy with Wipeout, and because I'm anal. Never mind that I never win any matches.

    I remember maybe 15 years ago that Rick Jamison had two identical .22-250's. He put 1500 rounds through each barrel. One he cleaned to bare metal every 50 rounds or so. The other he never cleaned. At the end of the test, the one that was not cleaned shot better than the other one, and better than it ever had.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
    What do you suppose that squeaky clean barrel looks like after the first couple of shots?

    I say that because I follow Kruegerís recommendation from years back.

    Their cut rifled barrels have extremely small lengthways cut marks. It is a natural product of the cut rifling.

    These small lines get filled with copper wash, carbon, or what ever.

    Donít clean it until every smidgeon is gone, because after the first shot, itís right back in there.

    Remember, Matches are not shot with squeaky clean barrels.

    I havenít told this story in a while, so now would be a good time.

    Some years back, at a Nationals in Midland, we were ready to shoot the Sporter 100 the next morning. Several of us were discussing the subject of cleaning. A bore scope was produced and we were all invited to bring our clean rifle over and have a look.

    Guess whoís, by the borescope, was no where near as clean as everybody thought. Mine.

    I was told get after that thing with JB, ammonia, what ever it took.

    I didnít. It was shooting good with my regular regiment, brush about 10 strokes with nothing but Butches, then run enough wet patches through until they are clean, let soak for about 10 minutes, and dry it with clean patches.

    Guess who won the yardage that next morning.
    I appreciate your stories and expertise. Thanks. I would rather eat glass than sit there and clean that thing till itís bare metal. Getting a borescope was my problem...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtmarmot View Post
    I clean to bare metal practically every time in all my rifles except a few hunting rifles with alligator skin in the throat. I just do it because it's easy with Wipeout, and because I'm anal. Never mind that I never win any matches.

    I remember maybe 15 years ago that Rick Jamison had two identical .22-250's. He put 1500 rounds through each barrel. One he cleaned to bare metal every 50 rounds or so. The other he never cleaned. At the end of the test, the one that was not cleaned shot better than the other one, and better than it ever had.
    Almost spit out my drink when I read you didnít win matches thanks

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra13 View Post
    Ed Shilen said something to the effect of "Clean when your rifle quits shooting, and only clean it to the point that accuracy returns". He did not believe that you needed to get your barrel spotlessly clean, and in factory barrels, found spotless to be undesirable.

    Considering Mr. Shilen's bona fides as a barrel maker, gunsmith, and shooter, prolly some sound advice right there.

    Justin
    Definitely. John kreiger said he doesnít break in barrels, just shoots them. Made my day

  9. #9
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    I'm somewhat of a heretic when it comes to barrel cleaning. I only shoot coated bullets and I never clean between relays. I have observed that some of my barrels seem to need cleaning between yardages, but not all. I typically do all my cleaning on Sunday morning after a match. This consists of two Patch out/Accelerator patches and a 1/2 hour wait. Then after running a few dry patches to get out the grime I do the Patch out /Accelerator thing again until blue stops showing up. Depending on the age of the barrel, this could be two or three apps. A borescope typically shows streaks of black from the bullet coating, but I see no point in getting it all. My observation is that acquiring wind flag skills trumps all the barrel cleaning and most seating depth issues. And I do win a match now and then. Just sayin.

    Rick

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra13 View Post
    Ed Shilen said something to the effect of "Clean when your rifle quits shooting, and only clean it to the point that accuracy returns". He did not believe that you needed to get your barrel spotlessly clean, and in factory barrels, found spotless to be undesirable.

    Considering Mr. Shilen's bona fides as a barrel maker, gunsmith, and shooter, prolly some sound advice right there.

    Justin
    That the same advice some of the Old Timers told me 60 years ago.

  11. #11
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    Most I clean after a yardage, but some ask for it more often. Read your barrel and do what it tells you.

  12. #12
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    Very good thread !

    Would be interesting to know what the majority of the shooters who place in top 10 of the bigger shoots on a consistent basis are doing .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmutv View Post
    Would be interesting to know what the majority of the shooters who place in top 10 of the bigger shoots on a consistent basis are doing .
    About the same as we deplorable s.

  14. #14
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    appreciate the input gents. Would it be a good idea to knock the carbon ring out of there often? Is it correct to say that copper isnít doesnít need to be fully removed but the carbon ring in the neck does? Iím trying to figure the best way to remove the carbon ring. Long rod with oversized bronze brush on drill?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtmarmot View Post
    I clean to bare metal practically every time in all my rifles except a few hunting rifles with alligator skin in the throat. I just do it because it's easy with Wipeout, and because I'm anal. Never mind that I never win any matches.

    I remember maybe 15 years ago that Rick Jamison had two identical .22-250's. He put 1500 rounds through each barrel. One he cleaned to bare metal every 50 rounds or so. The other he never cleaned. At the end of the test, the one that was not cleaned shot better than the other one, and better than it ever had.
    So for the barrelmakers who still coat the bore with copper before button rifling have you ever tried shooting one without cleaning out the copper?

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