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Thread: Tuners!!!!

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwezell View Post
    I was never worried. I knew you'd back up and PM'S agreed. Again...you talk a lot!
    Say it with me Mikey.....R I M F I R E.....this was about ...R I M F I R E.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    Say it with me Mikey.....R I M F I R E.....this was about ...R I M F I R E.
    Say it with Me...chicken!
    You're all talk and no facts and no action...even on your own bet. The forum auto corrected what I call people like you! I can't fix that either!

    Crawl back under you rock.
    Last edited by mwezell; 09-02-2020 at 06:49 PM.

  3. #108
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    I am good wif science.
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  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    I am good wif science.
    No...you're terrible at it, unless you like yanking my chain. Either way, what you are is fos.

  5. #110
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    The problem we face with tuning!

    I have posted this before but I thought it should be put in this thread because it has such an effect on this topic.

    Be sure to scroll to the bottom of the thread.

    https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...4012117/page-4

    If you have ever wondered why you think you have achieved a good tune and see it go away this could be what happened.

    Just saying!

    TKH

  6. #111
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    Tuners

    Tony H my BM 3gv barrel does not appear to have ever been stopped. At this setting shoots best untill I have to wait 2-5 min. for a wind condition. Throws next shot high left. Do I turn Harrell 1 full turn in or out and then work back toward Orig. setting, shooting 4 then wait 3 min. and shoot 5th shot to see if group holds? Would 1 turn be enough?

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman View Post
    Tony H my BM 3gv barrel does not appear to have ever been stopped. At this setting shoots best untill I have to wait 2-5 min. for a wind condition. Throws next shot high left. Do I turn Harrell 1 full turn in or out and then work back toward Orig. setting, shooting 4 then wait 3 min. and shoot 5th shot to see if group holds? Would 1 turn be enough?
    Your problem could be water forming in the barrel. If that is the case no amount of tuning will fix it.

    Timing your shots may help.

    TKH

  8. #113
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    How do you stop Water from forming? I've heard talk of it but never a solution.

  9. #114
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    water in barrell

    Is it not the time between shoots for condensation to occur? (sp)

  10. #115
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    Water in the barrel

    Probably every shooter has an opinion on this. This is mine.

    In certain conditions there is no way to stop water from collecting in the barrel.

    That water can have an impact on your POI.

    When I think this is happening which is most of the time. I try to shoot in a rhythm.

    That can be hard to do if you are also dealing with conditions.

    Most shooters pick out one or more conditions to break their shots. To stay in rhythm and watch for your condition(s) becomes a real problem.

    What I end up doing is when I see my condition I try to get off one or more shots at a sighter before swinging to the scoring bull.

    Yes, many times I'm late getting to the target but I feel this is the best method for me.

    TKH

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman View Post
    Tony H my BM 3gv barrel does not appear to have ever been stopped. At this setting shoots best untill I have to wait 2-5 min. for a wind condition. Throws next shot high left. Do I turn Harrell 1 full turn in or out and then work back toward Orig. setting, shooting 4 then wait 3 min. and shoot 5th shot to see if group holds? Would 1 turn be enough?
    Howdy,
    This may, or may not, give a bit of help.

    http://rimfirebenchrest.com/articles...pedMuzzle.html

    These are a collection of Bill Calfee posts from this site, from years ago. It's lengthy, but you'll see that in one of his posts he talks about waiting a bit of time and shots going high and left. This is a snippet of some of the posts.

    "Earlier I described a rifle I'm building and testing......I played with the muzzle device and got it shooting pretty darn good.....but, like I said, the muzzle wasn't stopped......how do I know this?
    I set the rifle up in my rest, that will RTB very good......I fouled the bore with a couple of shots, then moved to an aiming bull........shooting conditions were excellent...
    I then fired three rounds RTB as quickly as I could.......but, I did not eject the case from the third round.......I lifted the bolt handle, withdrew the bolt enough to pull the case out of the chamber, which broke the seal between the case and the chamber. There is a chimney affect through the bore of a rifle barrel.......I waited a couple of seconds, then pushed the empty case back into the chamber and closed the breech bolt......if I would have ejected the third case and loaded the forth, I'd broken the seal to the bore......
    At this point the forth round is standing in the loading block....cool.....
    I waited about a minute, then ejected the third case, inserted the "cool" forth case, pushed the rifle forward and fired.....
    I ran this procedure 10 times......3 times the forth shot did not enlarge the group.......7 times the forth shot was a flipper, usually high and slightly left....
    Based on this test, the muzzle of this little rifle is not stopped.....in other words, as it is, this little rifle will not wait for me......
    There's more to the story.....I'll finish when I get some more free time...

    *****
    I have a new idea that uses the water which forms in the bore after a shot has been fired that looks like it may be the best indicator of all in determining if I have my muzzle stopped.....

    *****
    I think I've maybe got a new way to tell if our muzzles are stopped....
    I've been shooting two rounds, then waiting for a minute, then firing another round.......I'm finding if the muzzle device (some call the thing a tuner) is set correctly, my third round goes in the group.......generally...
    If my muzzle device is not set correctly, that third round is a flipper......most of the time.....

    *****
    Muzzle device folks: Fire two rounds, wait a minute or two. then fire the third.....
    Did the third round center the group?
    If not, adjust your muzzle device, then repeat the test......
    My dear friends, I ain't got all the answers yet, but, when you get your muzzle device set so that the third round centers the group, after waiting a minute or two........you have stopped your muzzle....oh yes you have... "

    Read the entire link and perhaps you may find some benefit. These posts are from June to July of 2008. I think this was early on in Bill's figuring out his water in the bore testing. Hope this helps.

    Take care,

    Greg

    Edit: It took me awhile to make my post, I didn't realize Tony had posted prior to me. Between Bill and Tony there's not a whole lot that's not known about shooting.
    Last edited by 404tbang; 02-06-2021 at 10:03 AM.

  12. #117
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    668
    Quote Originally Posted by 404tbang View Post
    Howdy,
    This may, or may not, give a bit of help.

    http://rimfirebenchrest.com/articles...pedMuzzle.html

    These are a collection of Bill Calfee posts from this site, from years ago. It's lengthy, but you'll see that in one of his posts he talks about waiting a bit of time and shots going high and left. This is a snippet of some of the posts.

    "Earlier I described a rifle I'm building and testing......I played with the muzzle device and got it shooting pretty darn good.....but, like I said, the muzzle wasn't stopped......how do I know this?
    I set the rifle up in my rest, that will RTB very good......I fouled the bore with a couple of shots, then moved to an aiming bull........shooting conditions were excellent...
    I then fired three rounds RTB as quickly as I could.......but, I did not eject the case from the third round.......I lifted the bolt handle, withdrew the bolt enough to pull the case out of the chamber, which broke the seal between the case and the chamber. There is a chimney affect through the bore of a rifle barrel.......I waited a couple of seconds, then pushed the empty case back into the chamber and closed the breech bolt......if I would have ejected the third case and loaded the forth, I'd broken the seal to the bore......
    At this point the forth round is standing in the loading block....cool.....
    I waited about a minute, then ejected the third case, inserted the "cool" forth case, pushed the rifle forward and fired.....
    I ran this procedure 10 times......3 times the forth shot did not enlarge the group.......7 times the forth shot was a flipper, usually high and slightly left....
    Based on this test, the muzzle of this little rifle is not stopped.....in other words, as it is, this little rifle will not wait for me......
    There's more to the story.....I'll finish when I get some more free time...

    *****
    I have a new idea that uses the water which forms in the bore after a shot has been fired that looks like it may be the best indicator of all in determining if I have my muzzle stopped.....

    *****
    I think I've maybe got a new way to tell if our muzzles are stopped....
    I've been shooting two rounds, then waiting for a minute, then firing another round.......I'm finding if the muzzle device (some call the thing a tuner) is set correctly, my third round goes in the group.......generally...
    If my muzzle device is not set correctly, that third round is a flipper......most of the time.....

    *****
    Muzzle device folks: Fire two rounds, wait a minute or two. then fire the third.....
    Did the third round center the group?
    If not, adjust your muzzle device, then repeat the test......
    My dear friends, I ain't got all the answers yet, but, when you get your muzzle device set so that the third round centers the group, after waiting a minute or two........you have stopped your muzzle....oh yes you have... "

    Read the entire link and perhaps you may find some benefit. These posts are from June to July of 2008. I think this was early on in Bill's figuring out his water in the bore testing. Hope this helps.

    Take care,

    Greg

    Edit: It took me awhile to make my post, I didn't realize Tony had posted prior to me. Between Bill and Tony there's not a whole lot that's not known about shooting.
    Greg,

    Thank you for your input.

    I'm sure this looks like to many that Bill and I are in disagreement about being able to tune out water in the barrel problems.

    I would never bet against Bill just like I would never bet against Tom Brady.

    So let me say this. I rarely, if ever changed the tuner settings from where Bill set them.

    But I still felt that if there was a delay (those times are variable) in getting off the next round I felt better shooting one or more sighters before going to the scoring target.

    Maybe I wasted a lot of ammo but what the hey, you gotta do, what you gotta do.

    TKH

  13. #118
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    tuners

    Tony regarding your post #117-- My rifle is a BSA Mkiii-- have tried to brk seal and re close action--not much luck--the 2 rds then a 1-2 min wait would really speed up process--would +/- 2 clicks at a time be OK to find stopped setting or 5 clicks at a time be better and to also save using my best match ammo lots? Would my practice ammo be better/ok to use first to find the "stopped" setting?
    Do you use a joy-stick (top) rest to save time going from bull to sighter and back and to help when shooting switching conditions? My Bald Eagle rest is the pits doing this even with all the fixes. Need Shadetree??? Sorry for all the questions.

  14. #119
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    May 2010
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    668
    Quote Originally Posted by oldman View Post
    Tony regarding your post #117-- My rifle is a BSA Mkiii-- have tried to brk seal and re close action--not much luck--the 2 rds then a 1-2 min wait would really speed up process--would +/- 2 clicks at a time be OK to find stopped setting or 5 clicks at a time be better and to also save using my best match ammo lots? Would my practice ammo be better/ok to use first to find the "stopped" setting?
    Do you use a joy-stick (top) rest to save time going from bull to sighter and back and to help when shooting switching conditions? My Bald Eagle rest is the pits doing this even with all the fixes. Need Shadetree??? Sorry for all the questions.
    I am not familiar with the BSA Mark 111 although I have seen a few. Mostly when I shot prone matches in the U.K. .

    As for tuning, I'll tell you what little I know.

    Not all rifles can be tuned. As a matter of fact very few can.

    The rifle has to have proper bedding, proper ignition, action face square with the barrel face and bolt face, the chamber has to be cut straight,

    the leade must not be fouled, the crown of the barrel has to be in good shape, and hopefully at the smallest, roundest place in the barrel.

    Now I've probably missed other things but this should give you an idea of what I'm trying to say.

    If all of these are right tuning is not a hard task. Many say you can turn the tuner a complete turn and not be able to see a significant difference.

    That said, I think you should be able to move your tuner at least half a turn at a time to find the sweet spot (s).

    Now remember all this comes from a guy that does not claim to know how to tune a rifle. But I can tell when one isn't shooting. When that happens

    I look at many places before I think of turning the tuner.

    I do not use a joy stick rest. I've tried but they just don't suit me or perhaps I'm too stuck in my ways to adapt.

    TKH
    Last edited by tonykharper; 02-07-2021 at 12:39 AM.

  15. #120
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    154
    Tony, you introduced a topic that almost no-one pay attention in tuning, the front rest type.
    Joystick driven vs gear driven...

    Stability is key on tuning process, and joystick rests need a much more disciplined approach, that's for sure.
    I tend to advise, and because you are not running against time, gear driven front rests could be easier to achieve rifle tuning.

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