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Thread: Attaching Sail Tails to wind flags

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Fort Worth Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    I agree with Mike. I can't judge wind very well, but flopping and twisting tails do not tell me anything. As Mike said, there are more than one way to skin the lion.
    Jerry, your pointy ends are not a problem. A scissor will fix that. Bend the end over and super glue it.
    Butch, I scrutinized your picture more to get a better feel for your design. Is the tail a sail tail with the open side up? The tail holder looks like you took a piece of wire and put two bends in it to make a triangle and bent a catch on one free end to capture the other after threading it through the vane. Is that correct? Did you glue the tail to the holder? I'm going to order another set in the same color and try it both ways. They're not that expensive. I'll try them as them come first and then snip some square and fashion the holders as you have. Any particular type of wire you used?

    One question about sail tails unrelated to construction. How do they hold their shape in the rain? Seem to have had a fair amount of rain at Raton.

    Hmmm, guess old coat hangers could work.
    Last edited by adamsgt; 07-18-2019 at 12:47 PM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kentucky-Home of the Kentucky Wildcats
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    2,203
    Quote Originally Posted by adamsgt View Post
    Butch, I scrutinized your picture more to get a better feel for your design. Is the tail a sail tail with the open side up? The tail holder looks like you took a piece of wire and put two bends in it to make a triangle and bent a catch on one free end to capture the other after threading it through the vane. Is that correct? Did you glue the tail to the holder? I'm going to order another set in the same color and try it both ways. They're not that expensive. I'll try them as them come first and then snip some square and fashion the holders as you have. Any particular type of wire you used?

    One question about sail tails unrelated to construction. How do they hold their shape in the rain? Seem to have had a fair amount of rain at Raton.
    Kinda depends on what kind of shape they're in. They do pretty well when new but as they age, they seem to take on water more. I spray mine down with tent water repellent. Same basic materials
    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Scotchgar...SABEgKQ8_D_BwE

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    51
    Who sells fluorescent orange sail tails with gromets? Only place I found with that color (killoughs) is out of stock.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    233
    You might try David Halblom.
    Davidhalblom-flytyer@att.com

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by FBecigneul View Post
    You might try David Halblom.
    Davidhalblom-flytyer@att.com
    No orange listed

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    168
    Would the balance need to be changed when going from the tails originaly sent with the Graham flags to the sail tails?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    233
    The difference in weights is negligble. For that matter, we use different length tails depending on the heights of the flag as dictated by terrain.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Odessa TX
    Posts
    135

    Tail clips

    I get these on Amazon, 100 for about $6, 3/4 book rings, easy to put on and off, never had one get loose.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    5,163
    Balancing a flag sometimes makes it less responsive. I sold a lot of flags and ended up making the "vane" quite large because folks seemed to think a balanced flag worked best. Most, if not all, flags work because the tail has more area on one side of the pivot than on the other. Comparatively expensive, a bearing for the pivot point would be best as that takes the "balance" out of the equation...at least I think it would (should).

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kentucky-Home of the Kentucky Wildcats
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur View Post
    Balancing a flag sometimes makes it less responsive. I sold a lot of flags and ended up making the "vane" quite large because folks seemed to think a balanced flag worked best. Most, if not all, flags work because the tail has more area on one side of the pivot than on the other. Comparatively expensive, a bearing for the pivot point would be best as that takes the "balance" out of the equation...at least I think it would (should).
    Ultimately, weight becomes the main factor here. You can spin a heavy object on a ball but you can spin a feather without one. Adding weight makes friction more and more critical. Add a big enough vane(sail) and it can move a yacht, for example, just not very responsively. Adding more vane equals more weight..which means adding adding weight to the front to counter it...which means more overall weight, etc.
    I tried using a bearing of different styles and just a single ball for the pin to contact with my flags. Roller bearings were the worst and I couldn't discern any advantage using a ball at the end of the pivot pin, with my flags. But again, if they were heavy, it would progressively make more and more difference.

    There's more than one way to skin this cat too, but I did not haphazardly design my flags. There was a lot of thought put into every detail. I even had help from a friend who is an aeronautical engineer, fwiw. This wasn't a multi million dollar govt research on wind flags but more of a case where a very qualified friend offered his input over beers on a few occasions. I just paid attention and I learned a lot. I won't mention his name but a member on here called me out of the blue one day and we talked wind flags for a bit. He is a Navy contractor or something to that effect and had access to a wind tunnel. He told me about he and a friend or so had put some different br wind flags in that tunnel and tested them. I don't remember the details but the gist was in regard to how a daisy affected the responsiveness of the vane and flag itself. To make a long story short, my flags performed very well and the pinwheel design that I use is apparently a very good one where br flags are concerned.

    So, how many other flags have had an aeronautical engineer and a freakin military wind tunnel used in their design and testing, I ask. Lol!
    Last edited by mwezell; 07-21-2019 at 03:31 PM.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    233
    One other, Mike
    Jan Toombs of Peterborough, Ontario did his with much thought, calculations and experimentation. And then, he decided not to sell his.

  12. #42
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    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kentucky-Home of the Kentucky Wildcats
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBecigneul View Post
    One other, Mike
    Jan Toombs of Peterborough, Ontario did his with much thought, calculations and experimentation. And then, he decided not to sell his.
    I'm sure they are very good! We take flags for granted but even the best flag can only tell us what has already happened. Some are much closer to real time than others, though.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    233
    In many cases the tail tells you more or as much as the flag and sooner. So you have to learn to read the tail.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by B_Rob85 View Post
    Who sells fluorescent orange sail tails with gromets? Only place I found with that color (killoughs) is out of stock.
    I can set small brass grommets in just about anything.

    Less than $15 for seating pliers.

    I used home made upsetting punches for years.

    If I needed a new size just make them on a lathe.


    Even Walmart has the grommets and the pliers or upsetting punches.

    Engineering tape about 12-16 inches long works great.

    They move at the slightest breeze.

    I do not care if they twist or anything.
    The angle from vertical is what you are looking for.
    Last edited by brickeyee; 07-22-2019 at 04:24 PM.

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