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Thread: Hard Turning?

  1. #1
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    Hard Turning?

    Tried to sink the hole where the sizing bushing sits in my Harrell's Die today and found it harder than, well, one can only imagine. Was able to get .015" but I'm sure I trashed the carbide boring bar! I was hoping to take .060" out of it, at least. ANy suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Pete

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    Tried to sink the hole where the sizing bushing sits in my Harrell's Die today and found it harder than, well, one can only imagine. Was able to get .015" but I'm sure I trashed the carbide boring bar! I was hoping to take .060" out of it, at least. ANy suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Pete
    I got one..... "Hey Lynnwoood, Howsa'bout y'all send me out another die for 75.00"......

    Them carbide boring bars ain't cheap! And having it ground out will cost more than a new die.

    Meantime, I'm curious..... plunging the hole 60thou will seriously screw up the n/s junction. Are you trying to make a 30BR die from a 6BR or what? (If so, there's a better way)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    Tried to sink the hole where the sizing bushing sits in my Harrell's Die today and found it harder than, well, one can only imagine. Was able to get .015" but I'm sure I trashed the carbide boring bar! I was hoping to take .060" out of it, at least. ANy suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Pete
    Pete, most dies are case hardened, but not sure if Harrel’s are.

    The case hardening is usually only a few thousandths deep. Once you break through it, it cuts easy.

    I assume you are trying to size the neck further down by cutting the shoulder that the bushing seats against.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
    .....
    I assume you are trying to size the neck further down by cutting the shoulder that the bushing seats against.
    The Harrell dies I've got don't have a land at the bottom of the hole, they essentially come to a knife edge. If you cut them ANY deeper, the hole gets bigger.

    When I order my dies I request a .100 land area at the n/s junction with the neck-hole at the same diameter as my reamer.

  5. #5
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    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
    Pete, most dies are case hardened, but not sure if Harrel’s are.

    The case hardening is usually only a few thousandths deep. Once you break through it, it cuts easy.

    I assume you are trying to size the neck further down by cutting the shoulder that the bushing seats against.
    got in .015" The top of the die isn't as hard as the body, which doesn't make a lot of sense. I guess I turned .012" off the top so the cap would hold the bushing down. Looked to me like there was enough meat down there for .040" at least. The bullets I'm using need a longer sized neck to hold properly, ergo why I was a tryin.

    Pete

  6. #6
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    Not really

    Quote Originally Posted by alinwa View Post
    I got one..... "Hey Lynnwoood, Howsa'bout y'all send me out another die for 75.00"......

    Them carbide boring bars ain't cheap! And having it ground out will cost more than a new die.

    Meantime, I'm curious..... plunging the hole 60thou will seriously screw up the n/s junction. Are you trying to make a 30BR die from a 6BR or what? (If so, there's a better way)
    I have two of them dies and they both only size the necks about half way down so obviously there is meat above the shoulder junction, quite a lot , actually; half the neck worth .

    Pete

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    I have two of them dies and they both only size the necks about half way down so obviously there is meat above the shoulder junction, quite a lot, actually; half the neck worth .Pete
    Pete, my Harrel's are (actually....were ) also like that. I've cut the bushing seat on all of them to size the entire length of the case neck....as close to the neck/shoulder junction as possible while still leaving enough floor for the bushing to sit on (about .030). It took a little tinkering to not leave a radius on the outer edge. It's easier to just cut a radius on the bushings, though.

    Rather than cutting the top after lowering the bushing in the die body, I made some spacers to go on top of the bushing. These spacers can also be used to space the bushing up, leaving an unsized portion of the lower neck, if so desired.

    Just my approach to it. -Al
    Last edited by Al Nyhus; 06-28-2019 at 03:45 PM.

  8. #8
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    Interesting, thank you guys.... I just might have to order me a newer Harrell die and check this out!

    That makes the dies much better IMO

  9. #9
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    Thanks Al

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Nyhus View Post
    Pete, my Harrel's are (actually....were ) also like that. I've cut the bushing seat on all of them to size the entire length of the case neck....right down to the neck/shoulder junction. It took a little tinkering to not leave a radius on the outer edge. It's easier to just cut a radius on the bushings, though.

    Rather than cutting the top after lowering the bushing in the die body, I made some spacers to go on top of the bushing. These spacers can also be used to space the bushing up, leaving an unsized portion of the lower neck, if so desired.

    Just my approach to it. -Al
    some great ideas. Are those dies just case hardened or did you have to hard turn them the whole way?

    Pete

  10. #10
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    Pete,
    I am curious about this project, and was wondering if this is for a 30br or variant. If it is and the bullet you are using would need to be seated further into the case thus losing powder capacity, is getting a throating reamer to extend your freebore an option?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    some great ideas. Are those dies just case hardened or did you have to hard turn them the whole way? Pete
    They seem to have a bit of surface hardening...nothing like a production die (RCBS, Redding).

    A four flute, square edged end mill worked well. They are under $35 for carbide. Make sure you get the square edged version if you go this way.

    Hope this helps. -Al

    P.S. I editted my original post to reflect how thick the floor is under the bushing. In essence, the floor thickness is how much of the neck length remains unsized.
    Last edited by Al Nyhus; 06-28-2019 at 03:47 PM.

  12. #12
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    Yes, a BR die

    Quote Originally Posted by savet06 View Post
    Pete,
    I am curious about this project, and was wondering if this is for a 30br or variant. If it is and the bullet you are using would need to be seated further into the case thus losing powder capacity, is getting a throating reamer to extend your freebore an option?
    118 BIB's are long enough to go past the sized portion and what I have been shooting.

    Pete

  13. #13
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    Seat them suckers into the lands, man!



    Or just get a reamer with .030 freebore and give yourself the powder capacity that we need to get that baby humming.

    Or shim the top of the bushing and go for it...I think the bushing rattles when you shake the die in it's original form?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    118 BIB's are long enough to go past the sized portion and what I have been shooting. Pete
    Pete, I know the rule of thumb is to not have the base of the bullet below the sized portion of the neck.

    We stumbled onto this with the 30 WareWolf case (basically a 308W -.165). No matter where the base was, accuracy remained excellent. In fact, I won the IBS Hunter Championship with bullets whose base were about .025 below the sized portion of the neck. The fact that these .30's like a bit more neck tension doesn't hurt.

    This was one of the things that encouraged Stan and I to proceed with the WolfPup project (.085 neck length).




  15. #15
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    I had to go to

    another brand of bullet recently because I ran out of my 118's and am waiting for more but the new supplier's bullets seat OK. I suspect they may be 8 ogive or the like. I still would prefer to size most of the neck. I've had dies that did that in the past and foolishly sold them with rifles I've sold. I have to be crazy to re-arm at my age but I'm liking being with the old gand again.

    Pete

    Pete

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