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Thread: salt bath annealing..does not work ?

  1. #1
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    salt bath annealing..does not work ?

    look what AMP has to say
    (stirring the pot....lol)
    since one missed it already, the amp report is in C,not F

    https://www.ampannealing.com/article...does-it-work-/
    Last edited by retired; 05-17-2019 at 11:16 AM.

  2. #2
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    I though the typical temp was 700 deg F not the 500-550 used I think I read that a water quench was used- hmmmm rather allowing air cooling( slow cooling rather than a shock treatment) which could possible reverse what is trying to be accomplished- ain't no expert - different materials react differently to heat treatment processes. I have never messed with annealing or tempering brass- steels yes, even cast lead bullets. Course I also realize that they are biased even if a separate lab was used but they set the parameters. Oh well time to add some edumacation on the subject from metalurgy areas rather than equipment mfgs.

  3. #3
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    annealing

    Up at Lake City they weren't dropped in water but they annealed them before taper., before they had a shoulder, so I don't know if that made a difference or not. Doug

  4. #4
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    amp report is in C not F. go read again.
    Quote Originally Posted by blades View Post
    I though the typical temp was 700 deg F not the 500-550 used I think I read that a water quench was used- hmmmm rather allowing air cooling( slow cooling rather than a shock treatment) which could possible reverse what is trying to be accomplished- ain't no expert - different materials react differently to heat treatment processes. I have never messed with annealing or tempering brass- steels yes, even cast lead bullets. Course I also realize that they are biased even if a separate lab was used but they set the parameters. Oh well time to add some edumacation on the subject from metalurgy areas rather than equipment mfgs.

  5. #5
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    that would put them at 930 -1030 deg F apx-- over the top temp wise in F, if 700 F is the magic number. so methodology is still suspect. don't know much but I can generally look it up.

  6. #6
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    Interesting article, but it seems to me that if the neck/shoulder is raised to the correct temp for the correct amount of time, it's going to be annealed. It shouldn't matter what type of heat is used. It's just basic metallurgy.

    One method or another might be easier to perform, but once a procedure is established, none of them are especially difficult.

    I understand they have a product to sell and I hope they are successful with it. I, personally, couldn't bring myself to pay that amount of money to anneal my brass. The salt bath is giving me acceptable results.

    Jerry

  7. #7
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    THE 500 C IS FROM THE SALT BATH producer.
    so that is what was used in the test

    Quote Originally Posted by blades View Post
    that would put them at 930 -1030 deg F apx-- over the top temp wise in F, if 700 F is the magic number. so methodology is still suspect. don't know much but I can generally look it up.

  8. #8
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    Interesting ďstudyĒ. I wonít mention any bias, however, temperature is temperature is temperature. Brass needs 800f to be annealed and the salt bath gets it to that temperature. I canít speak to their brass, but after doing over 1000 rounds of 308 up to 338 edge, I can tell you they soften based on force required to seat, have a consistent feel and shoot consistently after being done.

    Iím sure amp, being in competition wouldnít depict SBA as a farce ..... I still question their conclusion based on basic metallurgy

  9. #9
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    AMP was right! Today I was so bored, I decided to see if the heat from molten salt was actually heat. I stuck my finger in and it didnít even burn! No wonder AMP said it couldnít anneal brass.

    Disclaimer: The above story is fictitious. Please do not try this.

  10. #10
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    no humor in your post.
    amp never said no heat,
    they did say the PROCESS did not work, in spite of the high temp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    AMP was right! Today I was so bored, I decided to see if the heat from molten salt was actually heat. I stuck my finger in and it didnít even burn! No wonder AMP said it couldnít anneal brass.

    Disclaimer: The above story is fictitious. Please do not try this.

  11. #11
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    I've never annealed cases other than the time I put those cases in the oven to dry them out....and ruined them entirely. That episode leaves me thinking that AMP's story is not the whole truth and I can't grasp why they would take the time to write it much less publish it. They've got the better annealer if you can come up with the cash but to say the salt deal doesn't work is kinda pushing it....wrongly pushing it I think.

  12. #12
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    I agree, Wilbur. Temperature is temperature. Nuff said.

  13. #13
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    I shot two hundred of mine

    last weekend and the rifle did not blow up. I used 700F and they softened up. Look good after they have been fired onest. Now, home and lodd them again for the Firecracker! Tis said they shoot the best on the second loddin. We'll see.

    Pete

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired View Post
    no humor in your post.
    amp never said no heat,
    they did say the PROCESS did not work, in spite of the high temp.
    Come on! It was a little funny. [tough crowd].....
    AMP is missing something with their testing. Iíll figure out the math for how many seconds it should take for brass to absorb the 500c and anneal then post the numbers. It is obvious why they wouldnít want salt annealing to succeed.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired View Post
    look what AMP has to say
    (stirring the pot....lol)
    since one missed it already, the amp report is in C,not F

    https://www.ampannealing.com/article...does-it-work-/
    500C is 932F.

    550C is 1,022F

    Way to hot.

    For the most part you can also adjust the salt mixture so it tends to melt at just below the desired temperature.

    It is not JUST temperature but time and temperature.

    And new brass is hardly a 'gold standard.'

    I do not know anyone that would fire new cases in a match.

    They usually get a couple firings in the match rifles chamber before they are ready for full precision loads.

    An anneal at something around 700F, and then loaded with match loads and tested once more.

    My varmint loads do the job with under 1/2 inch at 200 yards on paper.

    The 6mmRemAI is slightly better with its heavier bullets than the .22-250AI.

    I also use a PID controller to maintain temperature in the melting pot.

    The standard lead pot control is a bang-bang thermostat.
    The heating is full on or off.
    Last edited by brickeyee; 05-21-2019 at 05:18 PM.

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