Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Gene beggs... Help please...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6

    Gene beggs... Help please...

    Why does my new 220 Russian cases click on extraction with a reasonable charge of 26 grains of LT-32 and a 53 grain flat base bullet in my new 220 Beggs barrel? I followed your advise and purchased a new PTG reamer, and even told them I wanted the latest version with the larger base... what have I done wrong?

    TIA, for your timely reply,

    Wayne

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    washington.........STATE that is.
    Posts
    10,175
    Haven't seen Gene for a while sooo..... either your base is still too tight (small) or your die is too big.



    or both.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    231
    Wayne; How many firings do you have on that brass?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,461

    Talking Ol' Beggs again.

    Quote Originally Posted by waynemac1 View Post
    Why do my new 220 Russian cases click on extraction with a reasonable charge of 26 grains of LT-32 and a 53 grain flat base bullet in my new 220 Beggs barrel? I followed your advise and purchased a new PTG reamer, and even told them I wanted the latest version with the larger base... what have I done wrong?

    TIA, for your timely reply,

    Wayne

    Wayne, and others; pull up a chair, get comfortable and listen up; this is important.

    About the time I think I've seen it all during my years in benchrest, something comes along and makes a fool of me. The latest such experience occurred last fall after I chambered a 220 Beggs no turn barrel for a friend. It came out beautiful and shot terrific when I test fired it. Little did I know that when he picked it up and we went out to the tunnel, we were about to run right smack into a brick wall!.

    First of all, I assure you that everything turned out alright but we both were reminded of something I've known for years but overlooked this time. It's a long story so bear with me.

    Anyway, we set up at the bench in the tunnel with a clean barrel and twenty new, out-of-the-box Lapua 220 Russian no turn cases. Yes, they were from a new blue box of recent manufacture. We loaded them with my standard load which is a full case of LT-32, a Cheek 53 grain bullet seated 'just off' the lands and Wolf SRM primers. When the owner touched off the first round and tried to open the bolt it was quite difficult and had a hard 'click-at-the-top ! His look of disgust shocked me.
    I couldn't believe it. I said, "Let me shoot it." Sure enough, I had the same results. I didn't know what the hell was going on because I had carefully test fired that rifle twelve or fifteen times and the fired case always extracted like butter. After checking everything, and firing a couple more rounds with the same results, I was devastated.

    After about an hour of thinking and worrying about it, I finally figured out what was wrong---we had fired virgin cases with a full load and failed to lubricate the loaded round thoroughly before the first firing ! Yep and here's why. After cutting a new chamber I always test fire the barrel several times with only ONE new case, which this time came from the same box as those that were causing the problem. I fire the new case the first time with about twenty grains of LT-32 and lubricate the loaded round thoroughly to keep it from sticking to the chamber walls. This permits the case to slide back and come to rest hard against the bolt face. Without sizing, I replace the spent primer and increase the load to about 24 grains firing the case the second time leaving the lube on the loaded round. The case is now ready to be fired for the third time with a full case which is about 26.5 to 27 grains. Do not wipe or wash the lube off the case ! Now you have a case that will go in and out of the gun like butter.

    "So, why did the rounds loaded with a full charge swell up and stick on the first firing?" you ask. Answer, and most importantly, WE DID NOT LUBE THE LOADED ROUNDS ! Yep, I've argued this point for years and have met with much criticism over it but I know what works and what doesn't. I no longer shoot a 6ppc but I would imagine this explains why some of them have stiff extraction and difficulty chambering loaded rounds. But one thing I know for certain and what I've described here is very important in both the 220 and 6mm Beggs cartridges.

    "So Beggs,,, why the hell did you NOT lube the twenty new cases you provided for your friend?" Simple; I plucked twenty new squeaky clean cases from the box, loaded them to the max but forgot to lube the loaded round before the first firing.
    Since the Beggs cartridges require no forming, they can accept a full, hot charge the first. But this proves to everyone, how important it is to lube the loaded round. "So why did I overlook this?" Easy,,, as I said, I test fire using only one case, reloading it several times. That's why I had such a hard time believing what was happening with that freshly chambered barrel. I KNEW it had handled like butter the first fifteen times it was fired !

    So, as Paul Harvey often said, "Now you know the rest of the story."

    I hope this is clear guys.

    Good shootin' !!

    Gene Beggs

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,461

    Ol' Beggs again.

    Guys, for those of you who have ever experienced stiff bolt lift and/or 'click-at-the-top' extraction, try this.

    Whether you shoot a 6ppc, 6Beggs, or maybe even a 6BR try working up a single new case as I described above reloading it several times, lubricating the loaded round thoroughly. It also provides a good opportunity to get the sizing die adjusted properly as the case work hardens. It's a whole lot easier to get things right using just one case rather than a whole block of twenty.

    Gene Beggs

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Northshore
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Beggs View Post
    Guys, for those of you who have ever experienced stiff bolt lift and/or 'click-at-the-top' extraction, try this.

    Whether you shoot a 6ppc, 6Beggs, or maybe even a 6BR try working up a single new case as I described above reloading it several times, lubricating the loaded round thoroughly. It also provides a good opportunity to get the sizing die adjusted properly as the case work hardens. It's a whole lot easier to get things right using just one case rather than a whole block of twenty.

    Gene Beggs
    What do you recommend for lube Gene?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,461
    Quote Originally Posted by sdean View Post
    What do you recommend for lube Gene?
    Imperial sizing die wax is probably the best but I've used several other oils and greases; I have yet to find one that will not work. Mike Ratigan says he wipes his new cases with a patch of 3-in one oil. I enjoy using it because its smell reminds me of my first pellet gun I had when I was a kid. One word of caution about using Imperial is the fact that it will melt and run all over the place if you leave your tool box in a hot spot like the back of your pickup on a summer day.

    Later and good shootin' !

    Gene Beggs

    Oh, BTW, I read something somewhere recently that Gene Bukys, that other Gene B., also recommends leaving the sizing lube on his loaded rounds. You know Gene Bukys, don't you? He's the Gene B. that was, more than once, world champion. Me? Gene Beggs, well, I'm the one that was never world champion but people sometimes get us mixed up anyway.

    Gene Beggs, the redneck from West Texas, the tunnel guy.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6
    Thatís an interesting story sir, and while I have nowhere near the experience with the Beggs cartridge that you do, I have two other barrels that have chambers with another reamer that did not do that with clean, new cases. That phenomenon has me baffled.
    And while loosing twenty cases is certainly significant, I shoot UBR and that was whole box of Lapua brass. Please help me to understand what the lube does to stop the case from expanding too much at the web area, thus causing click? And donít misunderstand me, this is not a challenge, I accept your explanation, I just want to see behind the magicianís cloak so I too can have the secret knowledge.
    I had decided that PTG had sold me one of the old type reamers with the tight base, and so wanted to flame them here, but this appears to be on me and my lack of knowledge... just for grins and giggles, what is the base dimension for the new reamer spec? According to the print that PTG sent me, mine is .4400 at .200 from the bolt face.

    Wayne

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    257
    How polished are your chambers when youíre done chambering? Thanks

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,461
    Quote Originally Posted by waynemac1 View Post
    That’s an interesting story sir, and while I have nowhere near the experience with the Beggs cartridge that you do, I have two other barrels that have chambers with another reamer that did not do that with clean, new cases. That phenomenon has me baffled.
    And while loosing twenty cases is certainly significant, I shoot UBR and that was whole box of Lapua brass. Please help me to understand what the lube does to stop the case from expanding too much at the web area, thus causing click? And don’t misunderstand me, this is not a challenge, I accept your explanation, I just want to see behind the magician’s cloak so I too can have the secret knowledge.
    I had decided that PTG had sold me one of the old type reamers with the tight base, and so wanted to flame them here, but this appears to be on me and my lack of knowledge... just for grins and giggles, what is the base dimension for the new reamer spec? According to the print that PTG sent me, mine is .4400 at .200 from the bolt face.

    Wayne

    Wayne, it does indeed sound like you have an early reamer that is .440 diameter .200 in front of the bolt face. This was changed to .4420 to let the cases expand a little more so the sizing die has more to work with. If you do your own machine work, the barrel can be removed, placed in your lathe and the rear of the chamber polished out a little with 320 on a split dowel. This will solve your 'click-at-the-top' extraction problem.

    Lubing the loaded round before firing the first time prevents the case from gripping the chamber walls letting it slip back firmly against the bolt face which prevents the web area from being stretched and thinned.

    Let me know how it goes.

    Gene Beggs

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6
    Thanks gene!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Davenport, Iowa
    Posts
    384
    Quote Originally Posted by waynemac1 View Post
    Why does my new 220 Russian cases click on extraction with a reasonable charge of 26 grains of LT-32 and a 53 grain flat base bullet in my new 220 Beggs barrel? I followed your advise and purchased a new PTG reamer, and even told them I wanted the latest version with the larger base... what have I done wrong?

    TIA, for your timely reply,

    Wayne
    Wayne
    Another thing to consider
    Start with a case that has been fired at least 3 times(Its now expanded to its chamber size)
    Measure the diameter of case at 0.200 from web
    You need to resize (Shrink this diameter) by 0.001/0.0005 each time you resize the case
    Some dies do not size the brass down to this area.
    If you do not resize this area you are guaranteed a click/heavy/hard bolt lift.

    If you have the reamer print you can see what this number is and compare it to your actual case diameter at the web area.
    The closer these 2 numbers are will also tell the quality of your chambering assuming your reamer dimensions are correct with the reamer print????
    With a little bit of practice you will start measuring this area before and after resizing regularly along with the amount of shoulder set back.


    Nothing more frustrating than bolt clicking/heavy/hard lift if your trying to run a group.

    I am not trying to diminish what Gene said about lubing cases on first firing.

    CLP
    Last edited by C.L. Peterson; 04-14-2019 at 10:36 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    568
    Gene
    thanks for the post.
    i have a 6mm beggs i put aside for a rainy day.
    cases stick!!
    i now have a new approach to the issue .
    thanks again
    Last edited by retired; 04-14-2019 at 07:43 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6
    Thanks for all the replys guys! The consensus is that PTG sold me the reamer with the small base, although I specifically asked for the larger base grind. Looks like the cure will be to open the back of the chamber a couple of thousandths so my die can do itís job. And get the reamer re-ground to the proper specs.

    Wayne

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    568
    jut a note, it is really hard to add material to a reamer.
    that would be a complete regrind.
    try calling and asking nice for the correct reamer.
    Quote Originally Posted by waynemac1 View Post
    Thanks for all the replys guys! The consensus is that PTG sold me the reamer with the small base, although I specifically asked for the larger base grind. Looks like the cure will be to open the back of the chamber a couple of thousandths so my die can do itís job. And get the reamer re-ground to the proper specs.

    Wayne

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •