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Thread: Why do some consider torch annealing superior to salt?

  1. #16
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    Hereís a basic list
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Wouldnít be hard to make a kit.
    Lead pot
    Salts
    Laser thermometer
    Double plate for dipping

    Donít need temp control. It isnít important. I set mine at 7 on the dial and it keeps it around 430c ish. For bigger cases I start hotter
    An on-off (AKA bang-bang control) is not as accurate as the control from a PID.

    And you will need to adjust the IR thermometer for the emissivity of the salts.
    Other than on a flat black surface they are NOT all that accurate.
    Displayed digits is NOT accuracy and resistivity affects the color of the IR spectrum emitted.

    The 'progression' of colors for IR operates just like visible and changes with temperature and surface.

    A PID controller will turn the heating element off with rapid short pulses based on the rate the temperature is changing and how far it is from the desired set point.

    The on off pulses narrow as the temperature approaches the set point.

  3. #18
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    Your setup would be more accurate, but IMO a controller isnít needed beyond what the pot comes with. An ir thermometer only needs to get you in the 420-550c range. That is close enough to anneal the brass. Without a controller it is far more consistent than torch setups.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Your setup would be more accurate, but IMO a controller isnít needed beyond what the pot comes with. An ir thermometer only needs to get you in the 420-550c range. That is close enough to anneal the brass. Without a controller it is far more consistent than torch setups.
    And with a controller is even even more accurate.

    Keep in mind the idea is NOT to completely anneal the case neck.

    It is to soften it without making it dead soft.

    At dead soft you will have ZERO neck tension to hold the bullet.

  5. #20
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    Knapp Creek,N.Y.
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    salt mixture

    Where can you get it in this country?
    Brush

  6. #21
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    Feb 2014
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    Can you anneal case necks in heatreating furnace

    Can you aneal necks this way by raping body of case bill b

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    55

    Cool Anealing

    Can you aneal case necks by wraping body of case in treating foil in heatreating furance bill brawand thanks

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbrawand View Post
    Can you aneal case necks by wraping body of case in treating foil in heatreating furance bill brawand thanks
    No. Foil will not prevent the body from becoming annealed as well.

    GsT

  9. #24
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    Salt annealing is much easier and cheaper to do correctly if you donít need an automated setup for tons of brass. Even 100 doesnít take too long

  10. #25
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    Aug 2009
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    ĎAt dead soft you will have ZERO neck tension to hold the bullet.Ē

    I use an induction heater to anneal brass with and have been trying different shades of red to determine the temp I want the brass. I have taken it to red all the way down into the shoulder and still have plenty of neck tension to hold the bullet. Now to qualify that statement, this is on LC 5.56 brass cases of recent manufacture, and they feed and function in an AR-15.
    My PPC and Beggs cases are taken to a slight glow in a low light setting which Iím sure is still well over 800 degrees, and have not seen a reduction in case neck tension.
    Now, I donít claim to know the best way to anneal brass, my reasoning to do it this way has to do with repeatability and time. It takes about 14 minutes to do 100 pieces of brass, and thatís at a leisurely pace. Still, I want to learn what others are doing and why. I have found that with annealed brass, my headspace can be adjusted to the .001 with virtually no spring-back, yet Iím reading that dead soft is not the goal. Iím not up to speed with you guys, so please help me along a little.

    Wayne

  11. #26
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired View Post
    I read your sacrilege

    It doesnít make sense that heating brass to 800f doesnít anneal, salt or not. Every metallurgy table for annealing calls for 800f ish. I have had good results in the press and on paper with the salt. Any red while using a torch is too hot. Iíd like to see more info from an unbiased source.

    We need a simple equation showing how long it takes to heat the neck area, aka, .015Ē of brass to absorb 800f deg of heat. Iíll try and look it up
    Last edited by Mram10; 05-17-2019 at 09:52 PM.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    At one point I had a very precise chart that showed crystal
    structure changes in brass as a function of time and temperature.

    It used larger pieces of cartridge brass to allow easier sectioning and
    microscopic examination of the polished cross sections.

    I cannot locate it, and have not found another.

    Annealing is a function of both time and temperature.

    If you are doing things by hand (like salt bath dipping) you want a slightly
    lower temperature to help extend the required time and reduce variation.

    An error of 1 second on a 4 second anneal is a lot worse than a 2 second error on a 10 second anneal.

    And hardness measurement are a correlated measurement as opposed to cutting and
    polishing a brass section and examining it under a microscope to determine the size of crystals in the metal.

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