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Thread: New IR50/50 Matches

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Peoples Republic of California
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    New IR50/50 Matches

    I am happy to say that Rimfire Benchrest is returning to Sacramento.
    There have been attempts to shoot Rimfire Benchrest at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center in the past (ARA) but do to the notoriously tough conditions these matches were not well attended by the shooters who were understandably concerned about the detrimental effect the winds of the Ione Triangle can have on their AGG standings.
    For this reason and after discussing it with some of the local shooters, Sloughhouse Benchrest Shooters (SBS) is proud to announce that IR50/50 is coming to California!
    SBS will be holding IR50/50 3 card Unlimited 50 yard matches.
    For those of you who may not be familiar with IR50/50 it is a 25 Bull target, with a 10 point best edge scoring system, and while 250 scores are fairly common in IR50/50 with most matches won by high X count, this certainly won’t be the case at Sac Valley aka the Ione Triangle.
    We ran a trial match this last Saturday and the results are attached for your amusement.
    Slightly stronger then usual winds 10-15 mph, tailwind to 9:00 and switching hard. This is gonna be fun!

    The plan is to hold two 3 card matches back to back so you get to shoot 6 cards in one day.
    We have 20 concrete benches and a covered firing line, as well as a covered loading/cleaning area.
    If we have more then 20 shooters we will run multiple relays. If you show up you will get to shoot.
    Competitors will be required to put out frames and hang their own targets.
    A designated referee will pull the targets once shot, and then the competitors will hang their next target.
    We plan on Sunday March 31st (weather permitting) for the first match and also Sunday June 30th, with more dates to come.
    The match fee will be $30 for 6 cards. Pre registration is recommended, and benches will be pre drawn and emailed out before the match, to help expedite set up.
    Front gate at Sac Valley opens at 7am. Do not go to Main Office, turn right at the T and proceed to Range 11, past Cowboy town.
    Registration and check in will be at Range 11 starting at 7:30am, shooting will start at 8:30 am. There is no warm up match.
    IR 50/50 info can be found at: http://www.ir5050.com
    Range info can be found at: http://www.sacvalley.org
    If you need directions please ask, most navigation maps do not send you the correct way. (Meiss Rd from the West is a cattle track only passable with a 4x4)

    Regards,
    Greg

    Match Contact info:
    Dan Lutke
    Sloughhouse Benchrest Shooters
    Match Director
    cabenchrest@gmail.com
    408-241-9759 – leave message on home phone
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    55

    Cool Francis

    Did you use your regular ulm rail i just cfhambered up 4 barrels in m=i old one for 50 50 nice shooting bill brawand

  3. #3
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    March 31st IR50/50 at Sac Valley

    For anyone interested, with Dan's permission I am posting my E-Mail to him,
    regarding some comments that were floating around our area about our upcoming match:

    Dan,
    Well as you know I have been trying to stay “behind the scenes” on this whole Match Director thing. I figure 30 years was enough.
    I guess the “they are ripping the shooters off” comment really bothered me, but knowing where it came from it doesn’t surprise me.
    It will never cease to amaze me how some people just have to bitch and complain about being given an opportunity to have a place to go shoot a match.
    As I have always said Match Director is the most thankless job there is, and you don’t know how much work it is if you haven’t done it.
    After our discussion yesterday about a few shooters and their complaints (before we even shoot our first match),
    I did a break down on the numbers that might help you explain to those who think Match Directors get wealthy doing this stuff.

    First of all we are shooting TWO 3 card matches so the actual match cost to the shooter is 15.00 per match.
    IR50/50 rules allow for a 10.00 per card match fee, so we are half of that.

    If you shoot a 3 card match:
    15.00 Match Fee
    Less:
    7.00 Range fee
    4.50 IR50/50 fee (1.50 per card)
    1.00 Targets (@ .33 each shipped)
    Leaves:
    2.50 to cover all the incidentals. (Award pins, supplies, frame repair, etc.)

    As you pointed out we are already out of pocket over 250.00. (That’s 100 shooters before we break even)

    If you shoot a 6 card agg ie: TWO matches.
    30.00 Match Fee
    Less:
    7.00 Range Fee
    9.00 IR50/50 Fee (1.50 per card)
    2.00 Targets
    5.00 Cash Award back to shooters for 6 Gun Club Agg. 1st: 50% 2nd: 25% 3rd: 15% 4th: 10%
    Leaves:
    7.00 to cover all the incidentals. (the club would be back to even @ 3-4 matches)

    As most shooters who attend our CF matches know, any “profit” left at the end of the year gets poured back into Club/Range improvements.
    Covered firing line, concrete benches, covered loading area, just to name a few of the improvements over the years.

    If this sounded like I’m pissed, I apologize in advance but come on people, your shooting a 3-4K rifle on a
    900.00 rest, shooting 15.00 a box ammo, and your bitching about @ 30.00 entry fee?

    Personally, I could care less whether they come shoot with us, and Hailey probably wouldn’t like them anyway.
    She’s a pretty good judge of character!
    The rest of us will have a good time fighting the “Winds of the Ione Triangle”.
    Best regards,
    Greg

    So if anyone who would like to comment about my slightly pissy attitude towards this, feel free I will always listen may not agree.
    For those of you who are attending the match (13 as of me writing this),
    Dan and I will be holding a short competitor meeting after the match to get shooter feedback and address anything you wish to.

    Dan's contact info for registering is on the original post.
    Let's have some fun!
    Greg

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Augusta, Maine & Palm Coast, Fl
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    I agree

    BUT, in a day when it is very difficult to attract and keep shooters, Sticker Shock on entry fees isn't an easy thing to sell, I don't think. I don't disagree, in principal, with $30 but I would suggest easing in to it. There are some who won't be phased by it but a few who will quit because of it, seen it myself.

    In my case, the club I ran matches for really didn't care about profits from matches so I quit trying to make any. As long as the matches broke even, that was good enough. From a personal point of view, If I had been compensated for the work involved in running matches, I may still be be running them but that was or is , it seems, a consideration. Lot of work goes into being a match director, most of which is not seen by competitors or club members.And it aint so much about the money but what other way can consideration be shown? No entry fee for the match director, perhaps?

    Pete
    Last edited by Pete Wass; 04-01-2019 at 02:49 PM.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2010
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    256
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    BUT, in a day when it is very difficult to attract and keep shooters, Sticker Shock on entry fees isn't an easy thing to sell, I don't think. I don't disagree, in principal, with $30 but I would suggest easing in to it. There are some who won't be phased by it but a few who will quit because of it, seen it myself.

    Pete
    I have a really hard time believing 5$ per target induces "sticker shock" in any shooter considering a sanctioned match.
    I don't have a hard time believing someone finds something to whine about.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    83

    In total agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxxPower View Post
    I have a really hard time believing 5$ per target induces "sticker shock" in any shooter considering a sanctioned match.
    I don't have a hard time believing someone finds something to whine about.
    5.00 per card is CHEAP!! 12.50 per where I do most of my shooting, of course you have a chance of getting that and then some back.

    I don't have a hard time believing the rest either. Some are born that way and others evolve to it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    Hi Greg,
    I wasn't one of those "complaining" about the price, but at first I was a little surprised when I learned what it was. The ARA matches many of us attend cost $15-$20, a price that changes little or nothing whether we shoot four or six cards. One range down south charges even less. So I can understand why some experienced sticker-shock. On the other hand, I have paid that much at a six-card tournament in AZ. Certainly those who run the match should lose no money. (I do appreciate their services and make a point to thank them after every match)

    I have no qualms paying $30 for the privilege of shooting two matches at such a wonderful facility. In particular, I appreciated how wheelchair accessible it was. I wish I lived closer so I could shoot there often. That distance is the source of my concerns. It's a long drive, using up a tank of gas. I don't have the endurance to make the trip very early in the morning, spend six hours at the range, and then make the arduous longer trip home in slow-and-go traffic. I spend considerably more staying the night before in a local hotel. The match cost is incidental.

    Finally, this trip was particularly expensive. I got a flat on the road just before Rancho Murienta. Turns out it can't be patched. Since there is sufficient wear on the one, I replaced the pair!!!

    Respectfully,
    Albert

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Peoples Republic of California
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahighe View Post
    Hi Greg,
    I wasn't one of those "complaining" about the price, but at first I was a little surprised when I learned what it was. The ARA matches many of us attend cost $15-$20, a price that changes little or nothing whether we shoot four or six cards. One range down south charges even less. So I can understand why some experienced sticker-shock. On the other hand, I have paid that much at a six-card tournament in AZ. Certainly those who run the match should lose no money. (I do appreciate their services and make a point to thank them after every match)

    I have no qualms paying $30 for the privilege of shooting two matches at such a wonderful facility. In particular, I appreciated how wheelchair accessible it was. I wish I lived closer so I could shoot there often. That distance is the source of my concerns. It's a long drive, using up a tank of gas. I don't have the endurance to make the trip very early in the morning, spend six hours at the range, and then make the arduous longer trip home in slow-and-go traffic. I spend considerably more staying the night before in a local hotel. The match cost is incidental.

    Finally, this trip was particularly expensive. I got a flat on the road just before Rancho Murienta. Turns out it can't be patched. Since there is sufficient wear on the one, I replaced the pair!!!

    Respectfully,
    Albert
    Albert,
    Thanks for the feed back, I enjoyed meeting you, and we appreciate you making the effort to come shoot with us!
    My little rant was actually more directed to a couple of people who were accusing us of (and i quote) "ripping the shooters off" when we all know
    no one is making money doing this. The goal is to break even, and maybe have something in the kitty at the end of the year for the unexpected expenses.

    The travel distance and logistics are certainly something that we all have to weigh when we make our shooting plans.
    We are a little off the beaten track and before I moved a little closer (now @ 1 1/2 hours away) I used to spend the night locally.
    Some of our CF shooters will team up on a hotel room, for the 2 day matches. With the price of gas it probably makes more sense.
    As you point out, once you factor everything in the match fee is a very small part of it.
    Sorry to hear about the tires, that does make for an expensive trip!

    We hope you had a good time, and Dan and I will tweak the procedures so that hopefully things flow a little more smoothly next time.
    Our goal is to have the match completed by midday so people who have a long way to travel can get on the road as early as possible.
    Obviously we will review everything at yearend and based on shooter feedback will make adjustments as needed.

    Good shooting for your first time at our facility, it can be a little tricky, and we hope to see you next time in the Ione Triangle
    Regards,
    Greg

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    21
    Hi Greg,
    Although I consider the match costs to be incidental, I still weigh value. To me, the IR50/50 target fee of $1.50 seems to buy little or nothing. In contrast, I recognize the value of the $1/target ARA charges. The fees support a wonderful, easy to use website full of information. Participants and scores for every match in the country are posted, usually the next day. You can look back at years of data. If such info exists for IR50/50, I can't find it. If competitors like using the target, do so, subtract those costs from the match fees, and don't bother sending the results into what appears to be a black hole. Just saying.

    Respectfully,
    Albert

    Quote Originally Posted by wfcustom View Post
    Albert,
    Thanks for the feed back, I enjoyed meeting you, and we appreciate you making the effort to come shoot with us!
    My little rant was actually more directed to a couple of people who were accusing us of (and i quote) "ripping the shooters off" when we all know
    no one is making money doing this. The goal is to break even, and maybe have something in the kitty at the end of the year for the unexpected expenses.

    The travel distance and logistics are certainly something that we all have to weigh when we make our shooting plans.
    We are a little off the beaten track and before I moved a little closer (now @ 1 1/2 hours away) I used to spend the night locally.
    Some of our CF shooters will team up on a hotel room, for the 2 day matches. With the price of gas it probably makes more sense.
    As you point out, once you factor everything in the match fee is a very small part of it.
    Sorry to hear about the tires, that does make for an expensive trip!

    We hope you had a good time, and Dan and I will tweak the procedures so that hopefully things flow a little more smoothly next time.
    Our goal is to have the match completed by midday so people who have a long way to travel can get on the road as early as possible.
    Obviously we will review everything at yearend and based on shooter feedback will make adjustments as needed.

    Good shooting for your first time at our facility, it can be a little tricky, and we hope to see you next time in the Ione Triangle
    Regards,
    Greg

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by ahighe View Post
    Hi Greg,
    Although I consider the match costs to be incidental, I still weigh value. To me, the IR50/50 target fee of $1.50 seems to buy little or nothing. In contrast, I recognize the value of the $1/target ARA charges. The fees support a wonderful, easy to use website full of information. Participants and scores for every match in the country are posted, usually the next day. You can look back at years of data. If such info exists for IR50/50, I can't find it. If competitors like using the target, do so, subtract those costs from the match fees, and don't bother sending the results into what appears to be a black hole. Just saying.

    Respectfully,
    Albert
    I am unaware of the black hole you speak of. The only information lacking on the ir5050 website is years passed data. I agree. And hopefully this is something that is going to change. However at even a $1.50 a target I’m still several thousand dollars short of purchasing a new website, and the people who started the website had no way to predict the future. Dan seems to be doing an excellent job and trying to do something good for the shooters in California and that is appreciated. The scores will be posted in a timeley manor but as he mentioned there were a few glitches and one of them being the scoring program. Dan keep up the good work! Excellent first match

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Maine & Palm Coast, Fl
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxxPower View Post
    I have a really hard time believing 5$ per target induces "sticker shock" in any shooter considering a sanctioned match.
    I don't have a hard time believing someone finds something to whine about.
    My meaning of Sticker Shock was the 30 dollar entry fee. Context problem I guess.

    Pete
    Last edited by Pete Wass; 04-03-2019 at 02:28 PM.

  12. #12
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    So, I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by ahighe View Post
    Hi Greg,
    Although I consider the match costs to be incidental, I still weigh value. To me, the IR50/50 target fee of $1.50 seems to buy little or nothing. In contrast, I recognize the value of the $1/target ARA charges. The fees support a wonderful, easy to use website full of information. Participants and scores for every match in the country are posted, usually the next day. You can look back at years of data. If such info exists for IR50/50, I can't find it. If competitors like using the target, do so, subtract those costs from the match fees, and don't bother sending the results into what appears to be a black hole. Just saying.

    Respectfully,
    Albert
    .50 extra cents is a deal breaker too? I would guess very few people care much about archived results but it seems I'm wrong about many things so perhaps this one as well.

    Pete

  13. #13
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    Feb 2003
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    upstate, N.Y.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    .50 extra cents is a deal breaker too? I would guess very few people care much about archived results but it seems I'm wrong about many things so perhaps this one as well.

    Pete
    Pete, for Gods sake, how many threads can you poison in one lifetime ?
    Last edited by tim; 04-03-2019 at 03:46 PM.

  14. #14
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    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Wass View Post
    My meaning of Sticker Shock was the 30 dollar entry fee. Context problem I guess.

    Pete
    $30.00 divided by 6 cards = $5.00 per card.
    More like a math problem

  15. #15
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    Nov 2006
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    Augusta, Maine & Palm Coast, Fl
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    Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by wfcustom View Post
    $30.00 divided by 6 cards = $5.00 per card.
    More like a math problem
    I mis read what you said. $5. per card is pretty standard, even in other disciplines. I somehow took it to mean you were suggesting doubling the $5. per card. Probably shooters should pay more to shoot.

    Pete

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