I said the 110SMK in the 6BR imp. @ 2914 and it will shoot in a .1 at 100..... BC. on it is .617 it can go a lot faster in a 6x47 and a 6 CM At 1000 BR. Two calibers are dominate the 6 mm in a improved case and in heavy the 300 WSM not much else winning....... jimJim,

Your argument about the 30-30 coming up short when compared to other long range cartridges is certainly a fair comparison, but here is the real question. Should we stop using the 308 Winchester also? A 30-06 will make more energy. How about the 300 Win Mag? A 300 Ultra Mag will kick it's butt in long range performance. The story goes on and on. There is always somebody with a flatter shooting and better wind bucking cartridge. The best way to put this project in perspective is simple. I have won approximately 100 trophies shooting the 30-30 against the 6 PPC in group and score. I have reached over 3000 ft lbs of energy with the 30-30, or to put it more simply, I have duplicated the energy of the 30-06 book loads, and did so using 20 grains less powder.

I once took second place at 200 yards shooting a 30-378 Weatherby custom long range elk rifle. I was shooting against the 6 PPC for score. That day we had 30 mph winds, and my 200 gr Sierra at 3500 fps cut through the wind like magic hitting the 1" 10 ring 8 out of ten times. The best three shot group from that rifle was .190" at 200 yards. This was my hunting rifle at about 11 pounds scoped. Basically all I'm saying is that I understand about getting things done with more horsepower. Here we are just substituting a 30-30 in place of the 308 Winchester, and getting the same velocity. How many times have you seen a 30-30 that can stay above the speed of sound out to 1400 yards? I can do that with the 215 gr Berger Hybrid in a 30-30. The typical 30-30 with a 150 gr flat nose bullet goes subsonic at 400 yards. The supersonic range of the 30-30 is more than tripled with bullet selection, barrel length and high pressure.

Our whole sport is about reaching the peak performance we can with a given cartridge. Many put all their efforts into the 6 PPC. Some focus on mid and long range cartridges. When I die, I will know that I got more accuracy and range out of the 30-30 than anyone. At 1000 ft pounds of energy at 1000 yards, the 30-30 hits almost as hard at 1000 yards as a 44 magnum at the muzzle. How many people would have ever thought it possible to knock down an elk at 1000 yards with a 30-30?

Now for the comment about the bullet taking a "ride" when the wind hits it. They all do, but here is how much it drifts in comparison to a 6mm 105gr Berger hybrid at 3000 fps at 600 yards.

6mm 105 gr. Hybrid 3000 fps - 21.96"

30 cal. 168 gr. Hybrid at 2800 fps. - 25.64"

30 cal. 215 gr. Hybrid at 2500 fps. - 21.46" (oh wow, how did a 30-30 drift .5" less at 600 yards than a 105 gr hybrid at 3000 fps.)

You can run a heavier 6mm bullet like a 115 gr. I can run a heavier bullet also. The 168 gr. bullet is lighter for a 30 caliber than the 105 gr. is for a 6mm. The 215 gr. is a more fair comparison.

Calculations all made at 85 degrees and sea level with a 10 mph crosswind. Berger Bullets calculator.

Michael