Rimfire Reamers

[C.L. Peterson]

Curious mind

Centerfire Benchrest shooters frequently have their own reamer.

Do rimfire Benchrest shooters have their own "Special" reamer/reamers ?

Are their critical areas of the reamer to perform to Match standards ?

Do some reamers shoot Eley best and other reamers shoot Lapua best?

Who are the top rimfire reamer manufacturers?

How many barrels can a reamer produce before needing to be replaced?

Just wondering.

CLP

[Gene Beggs]

Curious mind

Centerfire Benchrest shooters frequently have their own reamer.

Do rimfire Benchrest shooters have their own "Special" reamer/reamers ?

Are their critical areas of the reamer to perform to Match standards ?

Do some reamers shoot Eley best and other reamers shoot Lapua best?

Who are the top rimfire reamer manufacturers?

How many barrels can a reamer produce before needing to be replaced?

Just wondering.

CLP

Cecil, these are all very good questions. I'll be listening closely to the responses.

My rimfire experience has been limited but I'm certainly interested and have an open mind to it. I obtained two new Turbo actions from Flash Ebert several years ago and had Bill Myers modify them to incorporate my deferentially threaded bushings so the barrels could be clocked up to the receiver in any position without affecting headspace. I was busy with centerfire group shooting and after dabbling in rimfire a bit, I decided to concentrate on centerfire. Who knows, if I live long enough and can find the energy and motivation, I may give rimfire another go.

Good shootin' and hope you have good response to your questions.

Later,

Gene Beggs

[Bob1949]

Hi CLP, I’m not sure if all center fire/rim fire shooters have there own reamers.
As to some of your other questions I submit an Excel file containing information
on a few reamers, with any luck it will be helpful.
As to your last question I would have to confess total ignorance.

Bob

[Dennis D.]

Rimfire is a little different from centerfire. I don't know of any CF caliber that has as many variations to it as there are for the .22RF.
I'm just a hobbyist but still have half a dozen reamers. Yes I do have favorites but that may just be because the barrels I happen to use them on were good barrels to begin with so they shot well, they may in fact have shot that well with any reamer I used on them.

If you do a search you will find plenty of discussion about matching reamers to brands of ammunition but I have never seen an exhaustive test done to actually try to prove it. It would take huge amounts of time, ammo and barrels under controlled conditions to come up with any meaningful conclusions. That of course is just my own humble opinion. I'm sure others will chime in with their own in due course.

I've never worn out a reamer but considering how little material it is required to remove with proper care and lube you should be able to do more barrels than you'll ever need and certainly more than I can afford!

Dennis

[Eidolon]

And then there is the quest for proper engraving depth.
Yesterday curiosity beckoned and I checked various ammo lots to see how much an unfired case protruded from a chamber breech.
There was a 1/2 millimeter (.020”) variance between various Eley lots.

[tim]

You got snippets here and there.....for what it’s worth, here are a few more based on a lot of years, several gunsmiths, mostly good guns, every barrel configuration you ever heard of and a few you haven’t, plus a couple of great guns.
Not many people like to talk about this, a lot of it is subjective, more than a little, propriatary and among the biggest reasons CF guys steer clear of our PIA rimfires.
I’d say, most, do not own reamers. I own a couple, for various reasons, never used them although I do own my own PPC reamer, a good one will last more barrels than you’d probably ever use.
Some very accomplished smiths don’t use a reamer but cut a chamber with a boring bar.
Most match chambers for bolt guns are similar boiling down to leade angles generally between 1-3 degrees.
As Ralph alluded to chamber depth is a hotly contested arena often driven by an abundant selection in barrel configurations as to lands, traditional, ratchet( canted) and MI (minimally invasive) .
Your eyes starting to cross here ?
Chamber depths here vary from slightly into the first drive band to full engraving.....also often dictated by the barrel configuration chosen.
One of the other principle reasons you find and trust somebody that knows what they’re doing is the ability to select and evaluate a rimfire barrel blank which unfortunately can be a pretty slippery slope.
Nobody wants to drop 3 bills on a blank and get told “ it sucks” but to be truly competitive nothing beats a great barrel and some guys have gotten to the point they will buy several blanks and hope the smith finds a good one to use. Proper dimensions are critical, including a tenth or two of gradual taper towards the muzzle. It takes a while to be able to slug a barrel and evaluate what that slug(s) are saying.
Back to chambers....one well known smiths crows about having MFR’s post OAL on lots. Folks speculate but, as is often the case, with a particular bbl configuration, it may require a fairly specific chamber depth to give optimum result and if it’s set up to shoot short ammo and your next supply is .0010” longer.....your off into the weeds friend.
Also, critical to cutting the chamber and it’s depth is how long you can shoot a card before the throat begins to load up with fouling to the point of compromising accuracy. Several feel that chamber lenght is important regarding this and the last thing you need is your gun starts to fall off coming down to the final few shots.
That said, this year I personally have shot at least to some degree, five rifles chambered by two well know smiths. I have also begun shooting Lapua, if for no other reason than to test for myself and I would say all of those guns, each with entirely different barrel configurations did OK. The last year or so I have had a lot going on but I did shoot a couple bigger matches with tough competitors and the guns shot well....anything bad was generally on me.
All of these guns have what I would call, “ middle of the road” chambers and they handle both ELEY and Lapua OK , as well as long and short ELEY. I still have a couple lots of some of the 2012-2013 ELEY which was exceptional but varies by10 thou OAL which, other than firmer chambering feel, have shot very well.
The purpose for this, probably long winded, post is to answer a few questions but make folks remember that getting answers is helpful but making sure what the important questions are......... infinately more so and far tougher for newbies.

[C.L. Peterson]

[QUOTE=tim;815552]You
Some very accomplished smiths don’t use a reamer but cut a chamber with a boring bar.

Tim
Does every rimfire smith offer "boring the chamber" ?

Does boring the chamber require specialized lathes, ie:cnc lathe.

Enjoyed you post.
CLP

[tim]

[QUOTE=C.L. Peterson;815553]

You
Some very accomplished smiths don’t use a reamer but cut a chamber with a boring bar.

Tim
Does every rimfire smith offer "boring the chamber" ?

Does boring the chamber require specialized lathes, ie:cnc lathe.

Enjoyed you post.
CLP

Very few and sometimes ( I believe) only for certain configurations such as, for instance, a 2 groove that will often tend to want to push the reamer off center to cut a less round chamber.
Over on Jerry Stillers site he actually reviews what he has done with some of the requirements.

[HuskerP7M8]

Hi CL,

Tim made a great post and for the most part I agree with everything he said.

Do you happen to be the C Peterson that shoots at the Oak Hills Gun Club where Ron Elbe is the match director?

Landy

[C.L. Peterson]

Hi CL,

Tim made a great post and for the most part I agree with everything he said.

Do you happen to be the C Peterson that shoots at the Oak Hills Gun Club where Ron Elbe is the match director?

Landy

Guilty as charged!!!

[HuskerP7M8]

I was just curious cuz Ron is a good friend and we visit quite often. We even shared a bench at the Nationals 2 years ago. I get his match reports and that's where I remember seeing a Peterson shooting there. Must be nice having a sanctioned match that close to home.

Someday I hope to shoot a match at Oak Hills, so maybe we'll get a chance to meet.

Thanks and good luck,
Landy

[Eidolon]

The chamber has been cut. Engraving established.
Now on to finishing the chamber. Another area of mystery.

[tim]

Personally, I would love to hear anything from anybody regarding what, if anything,they do with a new chamber, just go shoot it or any particular “ break in” procedure.
Landy???? Since you’re following this, care to opine?

[HuskerP7M8]

Tim,

There's not much I can add to the post you already made and I don't know how much help I can provide for your question. The curious mix of varying barrel/chamber/ammo combinations makes it nearly impossible, for me at least, to test anyone's hypotheses on finishing a chamber or a break-in method that might yield the best results.

I've seen some barrels that shoot fantastic with the very first rds thru them and others that evaluate as pathetic, but with a magic lot of ammo....come to life!

I guess I'd have to say I'm one of those who just shoots rather than following any specific break-in method or post chamber finishing.

That being said, I suppose some might consider how I evaluate a new rifle or barrel as a break-in method because I'll normally shoot a box of 20 to 30 random lots of ammo and average it. With that average I can compare it to all the other new rifle/barrel combinations I've tested over the years and hopefully estimate how much potential it might have.
I hate giving up on a new barrel, but when the ammo costs approach the costs of another rebarreling job, what's a fella do? More lots, new barrel, modifying the rifle.....wish I had all the answers but don't!

Anyway, those 1000+ rds to get a baseline level of precision may be beneficial, but there are so many exceptions to the rule that I can't get a handle on it even with all the data I gather.

When I do find a barrel I estimate has potential, I should start some very serious lot testing but the last couple of years I've had so much fun attending matches that I don't ever get around to it and I'll often just shoot random lots out of my inventory I'm trying to get rid of. The only serious lot testing I've done has been with other's rifles because I have a hard time saying no when they ask for help or are struggling with rifles that just won't shoot and I volunteer my help.
I've failed to help quite often, but on those occasions where I've been able to get a rifle competitive, it's been more rewarding for me than winning any match I attend.

Landy

[Pete Wass]

is a 1 degree 3 minute spiral reamer I got from Dave Kiff. It has made some good chambers. I made a depth collar for mine and set it so that every chamber is the same depth. My chamber allows the driving bands to just touch the lands. It's very similar to the Amick chamber. I have been satisfied with the results so far. When I first started cambering RF barrels I made a simple gauge to determine chamber depths and used it as a guide to be able to establish where I was at and where I ended up. What I have found is my chamber tends to shoot common lots in various barrels, that is to say, a good lot in one gun shoots in the others.

I've only done my own and only a half dozen or so. I think I've finally found a couple good barrels. I've had some that were OK but not great. Something I have done with some success is to set back a couple of pretty good barrels that were pretty well worn out. It's possible to lap a little life into a tired barrel but they only last a match or two before they need to be stroked again but they do work that way. CF barrels do the same, done that too. Taught to me by Jon Newman who shot a lot his whole life.

Also have had success shrinking a bushing onto a barrel that 's tenon was too small. I have a threaded Anschutz 54. Has a big thread in it so I turned the barrel down, made a bushing, shrunk it on and threaded it. Worked great and shot good onest it was tuned up. I have a background in Machinetool Repair so know how to do a few things.

Pete