My PPC Reamer

[Ackley Improved]

Hi

I am nearly at the stage of ordering a reamer, just the lead is where I have halted. I do not understand the ogive measurements, so it is hard to determine what it will be!

My plan is to use the JGS 1045 design, but using a 0.269 neck. With this I can use the Harrell's #2 FL bushing die and the Wilson dies as they are sutied to the JGS1045 reamer design. Although, I have heard, and you maybe able to clarify, that a 0.269 neck will not work with the Wilson Stainless micrometer seating die.

From other posts I have read that the bullets really fall into two classes with what lead is needed. The fowler, and the Barts.

With these ogive measurements, can to tell me which bullet they closer resemble in lead

1. bullet with 73/4 ogive

2. bullet with 81/2 ogive

What lead is needed for the fowler type and what is needed for the barts type?

Thanks for your help

Cheers
AI

[Charles E]

I hate to add to your quandries, but the freebore diameter acts with the freebore length (and of course the leade angle) to determine where the bullet falls in the neck.

For example, I have some of Jeff Summers older reamer prints with his notes -- This is from the days when Jeff shot Fowlers. He was helping me come up with a reamer to shoot bullerts on a .750 jacket, like the 62-grain Fowlers.

Reamer A:

.2435 freebore diameter;
.111 freebore length;
1.5 degree half-cone angle (3-degrees included).
Round OAL is 2.205 with 66-grain Fowlers.

Note says works well with the .825 jackets, will not work well with the .750 jackets.

Reamer B:
.2433 freebore diameter;
.0710 freebore length;
1.5 degree half-cone angle (3 degrees included).
Round OAL is 2.166.
Note says "this is an older reamer."

Personally, I wouldn't spec a .2433 freebore diameter these days.

Reamer C:
.2435 freebore length;
.149 freebore length
2 degree half-cone angle (4 degrees included).
Round OAL is 2.185 with 66-gr Fowler.

There are a couple more, including one with a 3-degree half-cone angle.

Jeff's cometn to me was that given a .2435 freebore diameter, a .050 freebore would work great with the bullets on the .750 jackets, and still leave the .825 option open.

I used a reamer similar to Reamer A with both Fowler 66 bullets and BIBs, which have around an 8-caliberr tangent ogive -- maybe 8.25? There wasn't a whole lot of bullet in the neck, but they shot well.

* * *

I have no data for reamers specifically tailored for Bart's bullets.

If you can have only one reamer, I would either (1) specify the freebore to position the 8 ogives as you want and use a throater for 6.5-ogive bullets, or (2) my perference, have zero freebore on the reamer and use the throater to set up for whichever bullet you want to use.

Good luck,

[caroby]

bump'n SPAM

[Ackley Improved]

I ment freebore, not lead.......... OOPS

Ok, did a bit of research and found that a projectile with a 73/4 ogive is closer to a Fowler.

Guess the 81/2 will be around the Barts.

Is there a freebore length (throat) that will work with both of these? Or really is it one or the other?

What freebore will I need if I were to pick just one of these?

Cheers
AI

[Boyd Allen]

You really need to look at the maximum case length that the reamer is built for, the length that you trim your fire formed bras to, and the FB length. I have been told that some of the JGS reamers were set up for a max case length of 1.525. I know that Pacific uses 1.515. Some have special ordered 1.5 or 1.505 etc. After fireforming and trimming, my brass ends up at 1.495. The distance from the end of the case distance to the end of the neck part of the chamber, as well as the length of the angled transition between the end of the neck and the free bore all add together to determine the distance from the end of the case to where the bullet ogive engraves on the leade. My Pacific reamer is set up for a case length of 1.515. a free bore length of .060, and a leade angle of 1.5 degrees. This allows me to shoot most bullets except for Bart's Wedges (too little in case neck) or some really pointy Bishops on .750 jackets. (The .790 jacket versions from the same point die work fine.) Everything else seems to work OK. If I wanted to be able to work with some of the pointy boat tails or the Wedges, I would probably order a max case length of 1.505, and a .035 free bore, which would put everything else .035 further down the case neck...no big deal for me since I don't shoot the 30+ grain upper node, prefering to settle for around 28.8 to a little over .29.

[Ackley Improved]

Wow.. by the end of this thread I may have my reamer design chosen!!

That would be great!! I really need to settle on which chamber I am going to use!

So Pacific Tool makes a JGS1045 dimensioned reamer, but with a length of 1.515.. How would this go with a freebore length of 0.050? Could I shoot both the Barts Ultras and fowlers with this set up?

Another question, for Jackie, is I have read a bit on the forum about your reamer from Pacific Tool. What freebore does it have? If I changed the freebore, could I use both Fowlers and Barts Ultras? What freebore length would you recommend for this? Have you got a reamer drawing there of your reamer, as I'd like to see it!!

Or Jackie, and anyone else out there.... just decide on 1 type of projectile to shoot, and stick with it and choose the reamer to suit it!!!

As I am in Australia, the ready supply of local projectiles are made with 73/4 and 81/2 ogive.

Cheers
AI

[Charles E]

Originally Posted by Ackley Improved

I ment freebore, not lead.......... OOPS

I think you're not quote listening. What I understand you to be asking is how do you get the bullets to have a certain portion of their shank in the case neck. What Boyd and I are trying to tell you is that all the measurements interact; freebore length is not the sole determinant. And I should have added that the reamers I gave as examples were set up for a 1.505 case length. If you were using a 1.525 case (chamber), you would subtract .020 from the freebore length to get the same results for seating the bullet. And by "seating," I mean how much of the bullet is in the neck when the bullet has about a .007 jam into the lands.

This from Alan Warner, in another thread:

FYI: A .0005" diameter change of free bore diameter will make a seating depth @ 1.5 degrees leade angle of .0095"
Take that to .001" diameter and it crawls out to .0191.

Change the angle to 1.75 @ .001 over on the free bore and it moves to .0164

As a note, I believe Fowlers 66 grain bullets have a 6.5-degree tangent ogive.

For pratical purposes, I don't see much difference between 7.75 and 8.5 degree ogives (what you say are available to you); what will work for one will also work for another.

[mike in co]

the wilson seater will work with a big neck...i shoot one too

[Reamer]

Ackley improved, The reamer most folks use for barts has a .030 free bore and a few order .035 F.B.. I hold a +.0002 throat diameter tol. on the o.d. on this tool . I would recommend Jackie's .269 neck size. Although we sure grind a lot of .262 and .263 necks. I tell folks to get the neck size they feel suits there needs or works with the dies they already have.I try and keep it simple and affordable .

[Ackley Improved]

Thanks everyone...

I have made my final decision...

After reading all the posts I see where you are all coming from. Although, is there a site that I can do a bit of reading about all this ogive/freebore/lead/crap so I can better understand it correctly???

I will be going with Jackie's Pacific Tool reamer. I think this will best suit me. The 68 grain bullets that are readily available here with the 8.25ogive will work well with this design, as well as the 73/4 from what I read from the above post!

REAMER, what do think about this decision on choosing Jackies Reamer design for shooting the 8.25 ogive and 7.75 ogive projectiles?

Jackie, will the Wilson stainless micromter seater listed as the "custom PPC" work well with your reamer design? Same for the Wilson stainless neck die listed as the "custom PPC"?

For the FL die, I understand you made your own? Is there any of the custom die makers you know that have made a FL bushing die to suit your reamer?

Also, what custom die maker does everyone recommend? It has to be a FL bushing die that uses the Redding type bushing.

I have to choose as well between the Harrell combo press and the Hood press? Which would everyone choose if they were going to buy one? I see with the hood you can buy the extra part that makes easy bump adjustments?

Choices choices..

Cheers
AI

[Jake]

Ackley,

I use a copy of Jackie's .269" neck reamer. I sent three cases that had been fired 3 times to Harrel's precision and they sent me a FL die. It is a perfect to my chamber. The body of the case is sized a little under .001" and I bump the shoulder a little under .001". I do not even use case lube except for the first few cases. These are rough measurements using a 6" Caliper, but they're pretty close. This amount of sizing gives me a slight amount of feel when closing the bolt. I have used this FL die on Lapua brass that had been fired with VERY hot loads. Almost to the point of blanking a primer. Even when I shoot these loads, the bolt closes easily after being run throught the FL die. I believe the die was around $70, and it came with a "thingy" to measure the amount of shoulder bump.

So if you're going with Jackie's reamer, my advice would be to contact Harrel's Precision. Make sure you tell them that you have a .269" neck reamer. I believe they had to bore out the hole so the neck would fit. I use 68 gr. Bart's Ultras with this reamer only. I believe if I used a more standard bullet like the Fowler it would seat way down in the neck. With the freebore Jackie specified, the Bart's Ultra seats a little above 1/2 down the neck. That's just about perfect in my opinion. And DEFINITELY go with the .269" neck. You would kick yourself later if you don't.

As for a seater die, I use the standard Wilson 6PPC die. I don't remember if it was marked "6PPC Custom" or not. The standard Wilson 6PPC Neck Die also works fine with this reamer.

Jake Hayes