what cal would you choose.. Just for fun???

[milanuk]

Monte, do you have an answer for this?

We're getting really far afield from the original topic but...

The person in question did shoot a B185 load for 1000yds each day of the team match. His average wind zero was, if I recall, roughly a minute or maybe a little more, inside of the wind zero being used by the shooter coming off the line immediately preceding him (me, as it happens). The wind coach confirmed that.

The problem with leaping to the conclusion that the B185 was some magic solution that would have widened the gap between the two teams - is that wind zeroes are somewhat relative. The captain, coach and shooters all spent some time in the practices during the Imperial Meeting working to establish a common 'zero' for everyone. Despite that, some people still shot consistently more wind or less wind than the others. If the person shooting 185s used less wind than the person before him, but that person tended to use more wind than everybody else anyway... what exactly did you prove? The answer: not much.

Is the 185 something worth looking into? Sure. I have two boxes of them sitting on my bench, waiting for when I get time/energy to get around to them. I do think (personally) that in theory (ballistic program output, etc.) they should help. Whether the difference is enough to make a meaningful difference... takes more than two strings of fire under very difficult conditions.

[scaxeman]

Originally Posted by Rustystud

I wish all the F-TR team had been shooting 185 Bergers when they could and they would have won by a larger numbers. Hopefully they will learn from their experience.

Nat Lambeth

I'd have to debate this one. There is no certainty whatsoever that the 185's would have made any difference at all in the World Championship Team Match. Jeff performed outstandingly well at all of the distances we shot over the two day match. His performance, however, (and I have been analyzing them closely for a while now) was not notably better at 1000 yards than it was at the 800 and 900 yard lines. He was only running the 185's at 1000. His zero was off from the shooter in front of him (as Monte's was off from the shooter in front of him) that may have led to his impression that he was shooting 1.5 minutes inside all of the 155.5s. For the entire 2 day match, Monte's zero was ~1-2 minutes to the right of the shooter in front of him, and as the winds were typically howling in from the left, I can see why that impression could have been left.

Again, while Jeff's performance (like all of the shooters) was excellent, he was not the top scorer at 1000 yards, John Weil was, shooting the 155.5 at ~3050 fps. Over the two days at 1000 yards, John ended up 6 points ahead of Jeff, although Jeff had one more "V". The main reason I ended up letting Jeff run the 185's at 1000 was that there was the impression that they might have been holding slightly better vertical, and that Gary indicated that the wind drift difference between the two loads was minimal ("not enough to be distracting").

The 2 day aggregates for the shooters in the Team Match were:
John Weil...405-21V
Jeff Rorer...404-21V
Paul Phillips...393-16V
Monte Milanuk...379-18V

All of this said, to try to compare scores between the guys is a bit unfair, the conditions were terrible, and extremely variable between each shooter, so it is more of an apples to oranges comparison. It is more reasonable to compare the shooters with their GB Team counterparts. On one horrendous 1000 yard string, Monte shot a 51-0V... sounds terrible until you see that his GB counterpart only shot a 55-1V! Jeff shot a 62-1V on the last string at 1000, his GB counterpart shot a 63-1V.

To further muddy the waters, on the UK Team, one of the shooters was shooting 200SMK's, all of the others were running some flavor of 155. George Barnard was their top shooter at 1000 yards, but only by 1 point. You'd think that shooting 200's against 155's would have let him gain a bigger advantage, but there too, we get back to the apples vs. oranges comparisons due to wild weather.

Take it for what it's worth :-)

Darrell

[eljefe]

I already did-first timer, newbie, was impressed after the first time i shot a 900m match. I picked up a second hand 6.5x.284, tikka action, laminated thumbhole stock, 1" shilen 26 inch barrel, and the scope is a nightforce 12-42 i believe.Awaiting the police clearance to take possession...

[John S]

The caliber I would choose would be 7mm.

The cartridge would be a 7 Wally.

A 7 Wally uses the 300 Savage case.

The reamer is a 7-08 run in .165 short.

Cut your 7-08 dies .165 short etc.

Have a good long barrel life;-)=

[Larry M]

I'm shooting a Lawton 7500 dual port 6.5x47 for 600yd BR. WHen this barrel dies I am going to try a 6mm somthing. Dasher,br,brx, 6x47L.
Larry

[bwaites]

Just for fun....

I have a 7mm WSM, and I love it. But for 600, it would be something with a little less punishing recoil.

I think the Dasher looks like a good compromise, though the 6.5 Lapua, .260 Remington, and the 6.5 Creedmoor are also very interesting and would let me use the same bullets I shoot in my Grendel.

I think it would have to be a 6.5 Creedmoor, just to be different!!

Bill

PS Monte knows this, but I'm a bare newbie at this, so take it for what it is worth!

[Greg Culpepper]

Just for fun, I shot my first ever F-class open match weekend before last at Butner. I shot a 6 BR and while it won't hang with a 6.5 or 7mm in the wind, conditions were mild and I had a big time. I hope to get to shoot the Nats in a few weeks also at Butner and I'll probably shoot the BR again, just for fun. Good barrel life and no recoil makes it easy to recommend the straight 6 BR (and a good tool for teaching one about wind) as a platform just for fun. Advice from someone who has shot exactly one F-class open match! FWIW.

Greg

[scaxeman]

Hey Greg,

Don't run down your 6BR too much. Too many folks sneer at it when compared to the "cannon" calibers (7mm mags, etc.), but even in windy conditions, the 6BR can hold its own. To be fair, I have only one experience with the 6BR, but it was at Nationals years ago. My F-T/R rig had gone south due to load problems, so a generous soul offers his backup F-Open rifle setup. It was my first time running an F-Open setup (it was several relays before a fellow competitor told me that I should really be returning the rifle to the forward "stop" for each shot!). With that little 6BR though, in windy conditions (Sacramento), I managed to pull a 5th place spot in the country for the day at 1000 yards. The rest of the F-Open line was running 6.5-284's and 7mm mag's of various descriptions.

Especially with the lighter conditions at Butner (although I hear that they have some nasty vertical), you should have a competitive rig.

FWIW

Darrell

[sdean]

Since I'm having one built, I say 6BRX. Really no miracle caliber. Almost everyone at a match has a good custom gun,good handloaded ammo and practiced in the wind. The biggest variable is who told the best,cleanest joke that week and made GOD smile at them.

[Rick B]

Has anyone tried it?

(.284 Win with the taper taken out, but shoulder left alone.)
http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...or-long-range/

[bwaites]

Suppposedly has less recoil than the WSM 7mm, too.

Milanuk is thinking about one, we'll see how it turns out!

Bill

[rdsii64]

If I were building that gun, and I only had access to a 600 yard range. I would build something that had mild recoil, easy on barrels, cheap to shoot, and would stay above the sound barrier past the 600 yard line.

Since am very new to this sport, take my recomendation with a grain of salt.
Assuming you are not going to compet in F T/R maybe a .260 remington or a 6.5x47 Lapua would be the ticket to a fun time.

[skeetlee]

what about a 260AI?

[Boyd Allen]

What about a really well built 6.5 x 55?

[Greg Culpepper]

Good suggestion Boyd! I might even try my old Swede 96. I had a ball with it in factory class at Hawks Ridge.

Greg