IBS Score Nationals 2010

[FBecigneul]

I responded to Nick Loy in the primer thread when he asked about the 2010 Nationals. I realized that was the wrong place to speak my mind about the 2010 Nationals. I told Nick that to shoot two distinctly different guns, as in a 6X scoped rifle and a VFS rifle, two yards on two days is a foot race. It is my opinion that there are others that feel as I do. I'd like to see Palmetto reconsider their two day decision and change the National to the four day format as it was in Iowa this year. This was one of the better attended IBS Score Nationals in some time and the largest gathering of IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter shooters in many years. At a time when we hear about attendance at matches being down, it may serve the clubs well to listen to the shooters.

[Jim Wooten]

Francis,

Please take what I am about to say with a grain of salt, as I have NO real inside infomation, but it was my impression that the Iowa Nats had a one time dispensation from IBS for the four day format. I think the standard is for a two day Nats, so it is possible that Palmetto might not have had a choice in the matter.

Once again, I have no actual knowledge of this, and I don't know how Palmetto feels about it, but you could probably get more info from an IBS official about the approved format.

Jim

[pbike]

bringing this over from the primer post as well...


Me too Nick... The four day event like was just held in Iowa is the way to go. For the guys that shoot a 6X rifle, w/spotting scope, the stand and the 2.25" front rest, then have to juggle all their equipment to set up for a VFS rig with no spotting scope, 3" front rest and in the meantime clean or load or both for both rifles is just short of insane. Shoot the two different rifles on separate days like was done in Iowa. Now then you have a National event. There is still time before the January meeting to change the Dates for the Nationals to a 4 day event.

Make it 4 Days and Francis and I will Bring 4 rifles and we will really promote the match for others to come.

Paul

Jim I don't know where it is or of it is a written rule, about the two vs. four day event for the Score Nationals. But I believe that when a club bids on the Nationals they can state the dates they are bidding on... meaning four or two dates.

Paul

[FBecigneul]

I'll definitely bring that up at the January meeting.
I may be in the minority as far as liking the pace of the four day format is concerned and I'll find out then. Shooting all 6X one day at 100 and 200 may not be a bad way to go but the days are short in October. The frame moving would tax the crew and those setting flags and wanting to practice. The frames would have to be moved at noon and at evening time. I don't know how many people this affects in the Southeast but you saw the attendance at Iowa and how many shot the two disciplines.

[Dick Grosbier]

A special exception to the traditional two day format was requested by the Iowa club to hold a four day match. After much discussion permission was given to that club by the Executive board to hold a four day event. It was made perfectly clear to all involved that this was a one time exception to the standard Score Nationals format. The success of that event was largely due to several club members pitching in and giving 100% to the clubs effort and not pursuing their own personal pleasure by competing in the event. My hat is off to those unselfish individuals that made it work. Should another midwest club located in the heart of NBRSA Hunter Class Territory ( for instance Wisconsin or Missouri) feel compelled to ask for such a format I am confident it will be given serious consideration.
However in the Southeast saying that Hunter class competition is somewhat limited would probably be an understatement. The Score Nationals since 1970 has been a two day event. In as much as the Palmetto range was the sole new Range to step forward and offer to host the event and they have expressed the opinion to me that it would be very difficult for them to put on a four day event I think the people who desire a four day event would do better to try and get a club in a more favorable location to try to do it again in the near future.

Dick Grosbier

[Al Nyhus]

For those that love shooting the 6X guns (54 of us at this years IBS Score Nats), a two day format makes it almost impossible to shoot both the 6X and VfS guns. I tried it at Painted Post, N.Y. for the 2004 IBS Score Nats. and vowed never to go down that road again. In 2006, myself and three others from my part of the country (Randy Robinett, Mike Bigelow and Tom Gollob) traveled together to Dublin, Georgia for the IBS Score Nats. Each of us only shot one class instead of both 6X and VfS like we would have liked to do...again because of the format. But, we felt it was important to support the IBS and the Dublin club, so that's what we did.

I would have loved to shot the 2008 Score Nats in Ohio, also. I know there was a real attempt by Jim Borden to get the 6X guns a seperate day (Friday) to shoot the 100/200, but for some reason it never happened. That tipped the scales for me and I stayed home.

The Iowa club gets a 'learners permit' to try a four day format for the 2009 event...and surprise of surprises.....it works! The only people that weren't surprised were the guys shooting the Two Gun.

So, after seeing that it can be a successful program....it's not going to be allowed again? Unless it's at a club deep in NBRSA territory?

There were virtually as many 6X shooters this year at the IBS Score Nats as there were at the NBRSA Hunter Nats! That's an unheard of situation...and one that shows just how powerful the draw of the Score Two Gun is.

Even if the host club can't see their way to do a 4 day event, why not run the 6X 100-200 on Friday? Drop the 10 minute match rule, go to 7 minutes and you can finish both yardages in a day. We shoot every IBS tournament that way and it works great.

And every 6X shooter that also shoots a VfS gun generates two entry fees.

Color me confused......... -Al

[FBecigneul]

"It was made perfectly clear to all involved that this was a one time exception to the standard Score Nationals format."
I don't see it in the rule book and I think it is up to the members.

[david dumas]

Well ya'll decide how many days to shoot next year,,,,,,,,, BUT, this saturday will be the SC State Score Match @ Palmetto Gun Club, a great time to start getting yourself in tune with a really nice range, nice people, well run match's and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it looks like the home of the 2010 Score Nat's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD

[ron collins]

Have two Nationals....One for 6X and one for VFS. It can be on two different weekends. In two different ranges. It seems that 6X is more popular in the mid states more so than in the southeast and northeast with more northeast 6X power than down south. So why cant there be a National for both? Some of the plus points would be in where the matchs would be held. Take into consideration a central area where it would draw the most shooters for the 6X guns. Also the confusion of flags when you have VFS and 6X flags on the field at the same time for a shoot of a National size. I have seen very few 6X shooters in the southeast area that shoot 6X regular. It also would be a two day shoot for both instead of a four day that would require the shooter to take a whole week off from work to shoot which might deter some from going to the match. There could be a plus for this format... What do you think...

[abintx]

Get rid of the current IBS Executive Board and replace them with open minded and forward thinking individuals who are in favor of promoting National Match formats that make sense, accommodate the majority of competitors wishes, and truly promote the sport. Some boards feel that they are in charge and what they say goes no matter what. Where it's the other way around. They serve at the pleasure of the members with the responsibility of promoting the wishes and desires of the membership at large. If the U.S. Supreme Court can change the "Law of the Land" with only 5 out of 9 judges agreement, the IBS Executive Board should be able to promote the wishes of its members or the members need to find a Board that can.

[glp]

Originally Posted by abintx

Get rid of the current IBS Executive Board and replace them with open minded and forward thinking individuals who are in favor of promoting National Match formats that make sense, accommodate the majority of competitors wishes, and truly promote the sport. Some boards feel that they are in charge and what they say goes no matter what. Where it's the other way around. They serve at the pleasure of the members with the responsibility of promoting the wishes and desires of the membership at large. If the U.S. Supreme Court can change the "Law of the Land" with only 5 out of 9 judges agreement, the IBS Executive Board should be able to promote the wishes of its members or the members need to find a Board that can.

for one thing IBS E board is a collection of pretty good, dedicated, fair and open minded people. They DID ok Webster City's 4 day format for the score nationals in 2009.

If Palmetto or any other club wanted to do other than 2 days all they need to do is ask, demonstrate enough resources to pull it off and probably they will get what they want. Your comments, even though , are somewhat uninformed. --Greg

[FBecigneul]

"It was made perfectly clear to all involved that this was a one time exception to the standard Score Nationals format."

I don't think is very open minded. Has there not been a change in the executive board since that decision was made? Jeff Stover is in and Jim Borden is out. Mr. Borden is so out that he chose not to accept the position of Past President and deferred that to Bob White. So, Jim Borden's opinion is no different that mine or yours, and I respect yours.
Some of the lengthier threads on this format have to do with the problem of getting more people to the range. I feel this is one way to accomplish that. Heck, you may even get some southern and eastern shooters looking for 6X scopes and Hunter rifles. This is growth; give it a chance. Bear in mind also that shooting a VfS and a Hunter or Varmint are very different in that you must have a spotting scope for one and not the other. You must change front rest tops or front rests and possibly the rear bag. You may or may not have to employ two different dies for both sizing and seating and you may need to use two different bullets and powders. I certainly don't think all the members of the executive board have their heads in the sand.

"However in the Southeast saying that Hunter class competition is somewhat limited would probably be an understatement."

Goodness, let's not change that. Let's not even look for new shooters in that class.

"In as much as the Palmetto range was the sole new Range to step forward and offer to host the event and they have expressed the opinion to me that it would be very difficult for them to put on a four day event I think the people who desire a four day event would do better to try and get a club in a more favorable location to try to do it again in the near future."

I'm sure they (other clubs) will and it's not too late for the Palmetto to consider the benefit to the club this time.


Ron Collins:
If the two guns at a National are shot consecutively instead of combined, you can pick which two days you wish to shoot. You do not have to go for four days. The cost to travel is one reason many cite for not going to matches. Here is an opportunity to shoot for four days and travel no more than you would for two days.

[ron collins]

But my point was because the Score Nats travel around, as it should to give everyone and every region a chance to host it, still puts a challenge on some folks who only shoot 6X like a lot of folks out in the middle of the country to travel 1000 or more miles to shoot. As in Iowa the hunter group shot in the middle of the week which means with you have to take the whole week off from work.. To some this could be a problem.. mabey? The last Nats had some 56 6X shooters there which was a very good turn out. But it was in Iowa which is in a area where 6X is strong. I saw on some of the posts where folks were complaining of how far it was to SC. But lets see how many come to SC. I know that there will be some but I doubt that you will see as many. But if a National for 6X only the region or area could be looked at more favorably to the 6X folks. As for the VFS shooters they will travel most places. This is just a thought to get more matches and more folks in to this game.

[Randy J.]

If you are going to hold 4 day shoots, I hope you put the VFS on the weekend. I hear and understand what you are saying about travel and that certainly is important to consider. I think Ron's idea about weekends is also a consideration for working people that don't have the luxury of being able to take time off whenever they want. I am in a situation that only allows 2 personal days a year unless the timeframe is between July and the end of August. I have in the past used my two personal days for travel to and from the Nationals' weekend format. I know I am only one person but maybe others are in a similar situation, hence why I posted. I would hate to think that I won't be able to ever shoot at a National again because they will all be 4 day shoots held midweek. I am sure there is some midground someplace. Randy J.

[glp]

Originally Posted by Randy J.

If you are going to hold 4 day shoots, I hope you put the VFS on the weekend. I hear and understand what you are saying about travel and that certainly is important to consider. I think Ron's idea about weekends is also a consideration for working people that don't have the luxury of being able to take time off whenever they want. I am in a situation that only allows 2 personal days a year unless the timeframe is between July and the end of August. I have in the past used my two personal days for travel to and from the Nationals' weekend format. I know I am only one person but maybe others are in a similar situation, hence why I posted. I would hate to think that I won't be able to ever shoot at a National again because they will all be 4 day shoots held midweek. I am sure there is some midground someplace. Randy J.

mid ground is....RETIREMENT!!