Why isn't the Howa action used for 1000 yard rifles?

R

REA

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Aside from metric threads and support, this action looks like it should be competitive at 1000 yards. It has a flat action, one piece bolt, price, and other good features. Why is that? Blueknob built one but didn't give any results. Thanks.
 
How available are they?

Where do you get them?

Who is using one at 1K and winning?

With what cartridge?

Folks don't care what threads they have, metric, sae, whatever. They're all bastard threads anyway so what difference does it make.

Go build one and win with it at 1k, and I guarantee you there will be others who buy more of em and use em. But, build one and get yer ass whipped good every week, and pretty much, folks will build what's whippin you.
 
If a Remington can win at 1000 yards so can a howa... How practical it is to use a Howa action for a benchrest build is up to you. Lee
 
I might add this. I drove 40 miles one saturday to look at a howa rifle. I wasnt all that impressed. I even had hight hopes and was really wanting the Howa actions to be my ticket for a good cheap coyote rig action. I thought the cocking piece looked like chit and the trigger was god awful. The bolt handle was to short and the action opened hard. Like i say, i wasnt all the impressed. lee
 
skeetlee said:
If a Remington can win at 1000 yards so can a howa... Lee
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WHOAHHHH Back hueyyyy....... sez WHO??? How are they similar? How is this different than saying "If a Ferrari can win a race then so can a Yugo" ????


Unless the two platforms offer similar characteristics it cannot be inferred that they're equally fitted for accuracy........ You set a Howa up in your lathe Skeet, true it up, find (make) a trigger for it..... get it up and running, TUNED..... and THEN you can say it's "equal" to a 700





or not




:)




al
 
Depending on which method is used for the mounting of the barrel, i would say that the difference could be between investment casting and machined billet. For a barrel block arrangement, the action is just a delivery system for a firing pin. So it could be said that any action could be used. If i recall correctly, there was a husband and wife team that used Interarms Mark X actions very successfully in a barrel block arrangement.
Basically there is not an industry built around the Howa action like there is for the Rem 700. First place of call is the trigger, and the one on the Howa is junk for the purposes of BR. Without that important element, the Howa is hamstrung. No doubt a hanger/modification for a Jewell could be made, but for what end? The list of modifications could go on and on until you pass the cost of a good custom action. But there are always those that will because they can.
 
IMO any action that does not have an appropriate trigger available is not a good choice for any type of benchrest shooting. Beyond that, I believe that the front action screw is threaded into the recoil lug, and with the typical fully floated barrel, when you tighten it, the clamping force on the stock is not well distributed, also with that configuration, pillar bedding is made more difficult.
 
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Im not one to argue Al but how is a howa similar to a yugo and a rem 700 a Ferrari? There are good triggers available for howa actions, and a lot of good gunsmiths claim that howa actions from the factory are much closer to true than a Remington. There are several smiths working on howa actions and most have nothing but good things to say about them. Do a search on snipers hide for Howa and read. Lots of info there for sure. I am very picky and I didnt like the action myself and to be real honest, im not all that crazy about a Remington 700 either, then again who am i. However i have no doubt that a Howa action can be made to shoot right along with a Remington 700. why couldn't it? there is nothing special about a Remington 700 in my opinion. They are fairly crude really. I never have owned one that had both lugs that would contact without having to have work done. the Howa i looked over did. i will give it that much. I didnt like the bolt handle on the howa and i didnt like the cocking piece. That may seem silly, but i have been called worse. LOL!! The built in recoil lug to me seems like a great idea, and the rear tang wasnt as flimsy as a rem 700. At least thats how it appeared. I dont hate Remington 700 actions by any means so please dont think that, i just think its a shame they are not built a little better or truer for what they cost. Heck a new rem 700 varmint rifle with the HS stock is over 1000 bucks. That 308 hs rem 700 5r rifle is closer to 1200 bucks. I do like the old style rem 700 triggers though, and the firing pin system seems to be time tested, howa uses the same system. Lee
 
Lee...one undesirable feature is the action/barrel threads are metric...


Eddie in Texas
 
skeetlee said:
Im not one to argue Al but how is a howa similar to a yugo and a rem 700 a Ferrari? There are good triggers available for howa actions, and a lot of good gunsmiths claim that howa actions from the factory are much closer to true than a Remington. There are several smiths working on howa actions and most have nothing but good things to say about them. Do a search on snipers hide for Howa and read. Lots of info there for sure. I am very picky and I didnt like the action myself and to be real honest, im not all that crazy about a Remington 700 either, then again who am i. However i have no doubt that a Howa action can be made to shoot right along with a Remington 700. why couldn't it? there is nothing special about a Remington 700 in my opinion. They are fairly crude really. I never have owned one that had both lugs that would contact without having to have work done. the Howa i looked over did. i will give it that much. I didnt like the bolt handle on the howa and i didnt like the cocking piece. That may seem silly, but i have been called worse. LOL!! The built in recoil lug to me seems like a great idea, and the rear tang wasnt as flimsy as a rem 700. At least thats how it appeared. I dont hate Remington 700 actions by any means so please dont think that, i just think its a shame they are not built a little better or truer for what they cost. Heck a new rem 700 varmint rifle with the HS stock is over 1000 bucks. That 308 hs rem 700 5r rifle is closer to 1200 bucks. I do like the old style rem 700 triggers though, and the firing pin system seems to be time tested, howa uses the same system. Lee
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I think the best answer is....... try it :)

al
 
I have a Howa and have used it with good sucess in long range comp. Today I got first place in heavy gun score and group in a IBS 600 yd match.
 
Trouble, is this rifle barrel blocked or conventionally bedded?

Either way, here's a real-world example...... dude WON with it :) score AND group's nothing to sneeze at.

(I still wouldn't advocate it but that's just my opinion)



al
 
Why isn't the Howa action used for 1000 yard rifles?
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Because it is easier, and your odds of success are greater, if you start with an action where the problems and answers to those are well known, and and there is a ready supply of any needed aftermarket parts.
 
Trouble,

How well does it do from a bench at 600? What modifications have you done? What caliber?

I would prefer 1000 yard results but that is hard to get due to the lack of ranges.

Has anyone else built a match rifle off this action? What were your results?



Most of the rifles on Sniper Central that I read about are just stock rifles that get about 3/4+ MOA in a 308 which doesn't cut it compared to a custom rifle.



trouble said:
I have a Howa and have used it with good sucess in long range comp. Today I got first place in heavy gun score and group in a IBS 600 yd match.
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It's a bit off-topic -- not about a Howa specifically, but about "alternative actions."

Phillip Yott, who holds more lifetime IBS points than anyone else in 1,000 yard benchrest, started with a FN Mauser 98 action, then went to a Winchester Model 70, and stayed with that until he retired. (Actually, we hope he hasn't retired & is only taking a break . . .)

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/shooter_rankings/PrecRifLD.php

Point is, it you want to use something different, there is a way. I suspect in Phillip's case he already had a Model 70, or could get a good deal one one. If you divided points attained by dollars spent, I doubt Phillip's record will ever be broken. A lesson in that, too.
 
Good point about problems already known. The Howa reminds me of a M70. Flat and strong. Philip Yote...and some people think the M70 is dead! Does his have a cone?

The reason I asked Trouble about specifics is because IBS scores don't mean anything to me. Just interested in LR shooting.
 
REA:

(BTW, it is Phillip Yott, not Yote)

Winning 600 yard aggs will be in the 2-3 inch region, unless it's a bad day. That's five shot groups, probably 4 targets (I've shot it once). If you want to follow trouble's success:

trouble said:
I have a Howa and have used it with good sucess in long range comp. Today I got first place in heavy gun score and group in a IBS 600 yd match.
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On 10/23/11, the only IBS match I see is the one in Bridgeville, Delaware.

Results aren't posted on the IBS site yet, when they are, they will be here:

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/index.php

Here is the link to the August results:

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/2011/Bridgeville/82111/Bridgeville821.php
 
Charles E said:
REA:

(BTW, it is Phillip Yott, not Yote)

Winning 600 yard aggs will be in the 2-3 inch region, unless it's a bad day. That's five shot groups, probably 4 targets (I've shot it once). If you want to follow trouble's success:

On 10/23/11, the only IBS match I see is the one in Bridgeville, Delaware.

Results aren't posted on the IBS site yet, when they are, they will be here:

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/index.php

Here is the link to the August results:

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/2011/Bridgeville/82111/Bridgeville821.php
Click to expand...
I will try to surmise what I have done with the Howa action in the last few years with my limited shooting abilities. The results are from 600 yd matches in Bridgeville, De. I have won some relays at 1000 yds with the Howa but have not won the shoot off. the 600 yd list is as follows: 2008 1/12 hg group 1st-hg score 1st, 10/11 hg group 3rd -hg score 2nd. 10/12 hg group 2nd. 2009 1/11 hg score 3rd 1st two gun overall, 3/21 hg score 3rd, 3/22 Hg group 1st overall 3rd. 2010 2/27 2nd overall. 2011 I was shooting until 2011 the Howa in a Boyd's varmint stock that I tried to convert with plates and bar on the underside but never did track straight. Looking back on it in the results, I placed more with the Howa than with the Rem 700 (trued), custom Rampro, custom BAT that I tried in lg and sometimes in hg. At that time it was pillar bedded and the action had been trued by Dan Dowling. In 2011 I obtained an old Lee Six heavy long range stock which my shooting partner and myself (mostly my shooting partner) put runners on the bottem, built front 5" and rear 3" rests for the rifle and made a barrel block for it. After dealing with several issues with the rests and old brass I was using and the way I was shooting, it all came together last Sunday with a hg group 1st and a hg score 1st. Also shot factory class with a Howa in 308 for 2 or 3 matches before I decided that 3 classes at one match was too much, On 1/23/11 I did factory group 2nd and factory score 1st and was 2nd overall [ shooting against Savage target rifles in 6br that were allowed to shoot in factory class. I have never claimed to be any kind of a great shot so am happy with what I have done with the Howa. I got the trigger down to 8 oz but can't use the safety that light. My other rifles that I use for benchrest don't even have safties on them anyway. I have had several Howa's that have been used for varmint rifles with great accuracy so I converted one to benchrest when the original barrel wore out. Thats' my story and I'm sticking to it./I]
 
Charles............I was just talking with Phillip and Debbie Thursday night at our club meeting. I was surprised he had not shot any benchrest this past year or Cowboy action! Nothing?
Rich De
 
Cool. I have a Yugo 24/47 in 8x57. Pillar bedded. Watch out. I'll be driving the red Ferrari.:)
 
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