V
va78
Guest
I have a hood press that I used for BR years ago. I'm just wondering what reloading equipment the F class guys are using
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Hombre0321
Guest
In F-Class I am quite sure there is no standerd press. Just about every press out there is being used by someone. As far as I know no one is loading at the range, there is not enough time for that. And when Pre-Loading ammo the Press is not something were an advantage is to be gained.
Roland
Roland
I think Roland is correct... 99% of the time ammo is loaded well in advance, and people use everything from arbor presses Wilson hand dies to Dillon progressives with Redding or Forster 'competition' dies, and probably about every kind of single-stage press known to man in between.
In certain situations - usually big multi-day events where the number of rounds required exceeds the amount of brass on hand for a given gun, you may see some folks loading in the evenings at their motel/hotel rooms or in the RV. Thats where you start seeing the smaller presses like an RCBS Partner press clamped to a table top, or a Harrell combo press (saw both the other evening being used by the South Africans), or even a Lee hand press with a Redding comp. seater.
I toss the K&M arbor press and my hand dies in the reloading box as a back-up, but always try to plan ahead to have enough loaded rounds for the event from start to finish - even if that means loading over 700 rounds of precision ammo in advance for an event like SOA & FCNC back-to-back...
In certain situations - usually big multi-day events where the number of rounds required exceeds the amount of brass on hand for a given gun, you may see some folks loading in the evenings at their motel/hotel rooms or in the RV. Thats where you start seeing the smaller presses like an RCBS Partner press clamped to a table top, or a Harrell combo press (saw both the other evening being used by the South Africans), or even a Lee hand press with a Redding comp. seater.
I toss the K&M arbor press and my hand dies in the reloading box as a back-up, but always try to plan ahead to have enough loaded rounds for the event from start to finish - even if that means loading over 700 rounds of precision ammo in advance for an event like SOA & FCNC back-to-back...
B
bearchaser
Guest
Havent been in the game too long..But I just use my Lee 4 hole turret
works for me..Have done pretty good with the 308,,but I want to give
my 22-250 a try as well....
works for me..Have done pretty good with the 308,,but I want to give
my 22-250 a try as well....
You aren't alone. 4Mesh used a $99.00 Lee Turret press too. Of course, he also made his own dies, and everything fitted perfectly. Boyd Allen tells me I over-fuss, but the proper way to set up a FL die is so that the shellholder hits the bottom of the die, & stops any more movement. That way, the press is leverage only. Nothing more.
In order to make that happen and still maintain the correct headspace, (unless you're incredibly lucky), you need the Redding competition shellholders
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=...87_a_7c3466_a_7c749005623_d_749005489_d_20524
or be willing to epoxy shim stock to the top of your shellholder, once you figure out how much. A 10-year old could do it, but might not have the patience. You can probably get shim stock from Brownells, too.
If you really want to do it up brown, see German Salazar's testing/evaluation of bullet seaters. Turns out the Redding is at least as good as the Wilson straight line -- perhaps better, and the Redding is a threaded die.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/09/reloading-seating-die-runout.html
That'll work in your Lee Turret, too. One thing Phil recommended was to keep spare turrets around. They're about $5.00, and do break.
If you think through the above, you'll see that any issues of "alignment" with the press are irrelevant. Everything sets up between the die and the shellholder. In my presses, the shellholder is a little loose, so it can float a bit.
FWIW
In order to make that happen and still maintain the correct headspace, (unless you're incredibly lucky), you need the Redding competition shellholders
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=...87_a_7c3466_a_7c749005623_d_749005489_d_20524
or be willing to epoxy shim stock to the top of your shellholder, once you figure out how much. A 10-year old could do it, but might not have the patience. You can probably get shim stock from Brownells, too.
If you really want to do it up brown, see German Salazar's testing/evaluation of bullet seaters. Turns out the Redding is at least as good as the Wilson straight line -- perhaps better, and the Redding is a threaded die.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/09/reloading-seating-die-runout.html
That'll work in your Lee Turret, too. One thing Phil recommended was to keep spare turrets around. They're about $5.00, and do break.
If you think through the above, you'll see that any issues of "alignment" with the press are irrelevant. Everything sets up between the die and the shellholder. In my presses, the shellholder is a little loose, so it can float a bit.
FWIW
bill larson
Member
pre-loaded
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bearchaser
Guest
whats the difference wether you glue 10 thousands to the top of the shell holder
or you screw the die down another 10 thousands..explain that to me..
or you screw the die down another 10 thousands..explain that to me..
If you screw the die down another .010, you also set the shoulder of the case back another .010, which increases the head clearance (headspace) another .010.
If you use a taller shellholder (the Redding set, or better, a shim), the amount of shoulder setback (headspace) is not affected by the die & shellholder now making firm contact with each other.
How to determine shim needed:
Size a case. Screw the die in & out to vary headspace. Check the amount you've move the shoulder back (headspace). I guess you can buy a headspace gauge, I always use a "thingy" ("gizmo?") we make by running the chambering reamer into a bit of barrel stub & facing off each end.
Anyway, there should be no more than .001 or .002 head clearence. Once you've unscrewed the die enough to get that, used a feeler gauge between the shellholder and the die. That number is very, very close to the amount of shim you glue to the top of the shellholder.
Cut that value, to the nearest .001, from shim stock, but before gluing, set it on top of the shellholder and (carefully, so as not to disturb the shim) size a well-fired case. Check that the headspace is right. If it is, epoxy -- or in this case, I'd bet superglue would also do the job.
Now, whatever is wrong with the press -- runout, sloppiness, etc., cannot be a factor in any runout from sizing cases. A $99 Lee turret is just as good as a $300 Harrell -- though bigger, and not as pretty. And it's reported the Lee turrets break from time to time.
For the single stage presses, the same applies. Cheap -- Lee, or RCBS Junior, for example, are as good as any other, just not as small for packing in a box for range use. I just find an extra Kitty Litter pail a good bargain for the $100+ difference in price. You can usually pick up used RCBS Juniors for a song, as Benchresters move to a prettier press. The Benchrest shooter Jackie Schmidt takes three RCBS juniors to the range, one for FL sizing, one for seating, and one ... I don't know. I bet he's got $20 in all three.
If you use a taller shellholder (the Redding set, or better, a shim), the amount of shoulder setback (headspace) is not affected by the die & shellholder now making firm contact with each other.
How to determine shim needed:
Size a case. Screw the die in & out to vary headspace. Check the amount you've move the shoulder back (headspace). I guess you can buy a headspace gauge, I always use a "thingy" ("gizmo?") we make by running the chambering reamer into a bit of barrel stub & facing off each end.
Anyway, there should be no more than .001 or .002 head clearence. Once you've unscrewed the die enough to get that, used a feeler gauge between the shellholder and the die. That number is very, very close to the amount of shim you glue to the top of the shellholder.
Cut that value, to the nearest .001, from shim stock, but before gluing, set it on top of the shellholder and (carefully, so as not to disturb the shim) size a well-fired case. Check that the headspace is right. If it is, epoxy -- or in this case, I'd bet superglue would also do the job.
Now, whatever is wrong with the press -- runout, sloppiness, etc., cannot be a factor in any runout from sizing cases. A $99 Lee turret is just as good as a $300 Harrell -- though bigger, and not as pretty. And it's reported the Lee turrets break from time to time.
For the single stage presses, the same applies. Cheap -- Lee, or RCBS Junior, for example, are as good as any other, just not as small for packing in a box for range use. I just find an extra Kitty Litter pail a good bargain for the $100+ difference in price. You can usually pick up used RCBS Juniors for a song, as Benchresters move to a prettier press. The Benchrest shooter Jackie Schmidt takes three RCBS juniors to the range, one for FL sizing, one for seating, and one ... I don't know. I bet he's got $20 in all three.
D
Dan Conzo
Guest
RCBS Jr presses, old iron Pacifics (w/ universal shell holders) and some others are excellent presses--a lot better than the newer aluminum presses if you're doing more than seating, depriming and ram priming and you can still pick them up for cheap.
I haven't checked recently to see if they are still a available, but there used to be a set of shims that would go between the top of the press and the lock ring of the sizing die. This system allows you to easily adjust things as necessary rather than shims that are glued in place.
Rick, these shims (Skip's Die Shims and others) don't address the problem Charles' referring to. What Charles is saying is that to ensure that the sizing is consistent you must adjust such that the press bottoms the die out on the shellholder. In other words, NO GAP. The shimming he's referring to occurs on the shellholder itself such that the die touches down each time.
aliwa,
I understand the difference, but the "bridge height" varies from one press to another and I have used thes shims to avoid changing the position of the lock ring on the sizing die. Most times the dies set the headspace correctly on my equipment with about 1/8 to 1/4 turn beyond contact with the shell holder though there is the occasional circumstance where the die is cut short and a gap must be left between the shell holder and the bottom of the sizing die which does not seem to matter much on most dies as they tend to be a bit loose in that area. The problem, in my experience, has been flex in the press, even some presses people say don't flex. Getting the cases consistently lubed seems to be the key to getting the brass consistently sized.
Are people commonly experiencing dies that don't reach the shell holder when the headspace is properly set?
Regards,
Rick
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Boyd Allen
Active member
Redding Competition Shellholder sets were brought out to improve consistency of shoulder bump by providing incrementally taller shell holders as a set. They include a standard holder and additional holders that increase in height in .002 steps. If your die and chamber are such that a standard shell holder does not have a slight interference with the bottom of the die at the top of the ram stroke, when sizing a case, you can try progressively taller shell holders until you get that condition. On the other hand, for my PPCs, I have had to modify shell holders so that they are shorter (take material off of their tops) so that my dies can be set low enough to bump the shoulders of cases that have been work hardened by numerous firings. In situations where a slight reduction of neck tension is not problematic, partial annealing, can greatly improve bump consistency. Gluing shims to the top of shell holders addresses the same issue as the Redding Competition shell holders. The shims that go under lock rings are for an entirely different purpose. In the next few months there will be a new development that will eliminate the need for special shell holders or glued shims. Stay tuned ;-)
Stay tuned ?? Is there a hint of what is coming out that you can spill prior ?? I've just started doing the shell holder to base of die and seems I get a better runout on a Neco tool.
Well, I, for one, NEVER set my die to touch the shellholder........... I grind mine off if need be to ensure that they never touch down. I require long case life with little or no growth. I don't believe this is possible in a setup where the die touches the shellholder. The chance of a die ever being cut to match your chamber is 1/1000 and even then I vary my sizing effect (length) throughout the life of the brass.
So, in short, I'm going the other way and stating that the entire idea of setting up to touch die to shellholder is flawed in it's face
al
H
hati666
Guest
Hood press is ever reliable because i personally use the press which is doing good job..I am very impressed..Which is said hood is not good those tell me the negative point in it...
