Weapon won't fire

F

flyrodder

Guest
I was just at the range trying a new load.
A Vanguard .204, fewer than 300 shots fired.
40gr Vmax, Hornady brass, CCI 450 primer, 26.5gr H4895
All are items pullded directly from a manual (26.0-27.7gr recommended)
On my third shot the primer punched and the wisped from the back of the bolt
as I extracted the shell.
After a moment the 4th round was chambered and the weapon would not fire.
The firing pin is engaged, but will not release.
The trigger mechanism is working correctly.
Could something have lodged in the firing pin cylinder causing this problem?

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Bernie
 
Damn.
I've never taken a bolt apart. I'm kind of nervous about even trying for fear of making it even worse.
Actually, I wouldn't know where to begin.
 
Kind of nervous?,,,,,,Take it to the smith.

flyrodder said:
Damn.
I've never taken a bolt apart. I'm kind of nervous about even trying for fear of making it even worse.
Actually, I wouldn't know where to begin.
Click to expand...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Shoot well
Peter
 
I've had a piece of a pierced primer fragment go back into the bolt and seize the firing pin before. Not uncommon.

Have a gunsmith take it apart and remove the piece, and he'll let you know if you need further repair.
 
Thanks for the advice. The smithy will defininately be doing the work, not me.
Now I'm curious as to why it happened at all. I'm far from max load.
Bernie
 
primer donuts

It is not uncommon on a hot load to pierce a primer and a donut of primer material blows back around the firing pin or in the bolt body and jams the firing pin in the bolt body.Usually nothing major happens unless your staring at a Alaska Brown bear(at least to the firearm,not weapon).

Chris
 
I've been trying to take a pic, but I can't get zoom and focus at the same time. I'm attaching the best pic I could get.
Now that I'm going through my brass, I've had 7 other pressure signs on the caps. These are the LOWEST loads Ive done. So now I'm getting more confused because this is the first genuine blow out.
243.jpg
 
Weapon

I use RIFLES for my sport. The army uses those other things.
 
flyrodder said:
I've been trying to take a pic, but I can't get zoom and focus at the same time.
Click to expand...

Somewhere on your camera, there ought to be a button with a flower next to it--macro setting. I you press that, you'll be able to focus close up.
 
I had a Win M70 ranger do that, but the culprit was a chip of steel from the manufacturing process. It stayed put all through the sighting in process and moved under the firing pin when I pulled up on a deer in the field. I had three failures to fire before the deer moved off. I took the bolt apart and a chip about the size of those you get from a three ring paper punch fell out.
 
When you take the bolt into the gunsmith have him show you how to remove the firing pin/spring assembly from the bolt body. I don't know about the Vanguard, but it's usually a simple job that a shooter should be able to do himself in a few minutes to take apart and reassemble. If you have the manual for the rifle it likely shows how to do the job.

It's a good thing to know if you're out in the field and the same thing happens. It's like knowing how to change a tire IMHO. :D
 
In answer to your question about low powder charge rate, It possible to have too low a powder charge. Which can sometimes resulte in detonation instead a rapidly progessive burn. Will cause excessive pressure, hence the indications you noted.
Another point to look at would be the case neck thickness + bullet dia. verses your chamber dia. Lack of proper clearance here would also cause high pressure signs. Case necks can and do vairy in thickness from the mfg. as well as the brass flowing into the neck area during resizing operations. Overly long neck cammed into chamber could crimp onto bullet again causing overpressure condition. some points to consider
 
weapon vs gun or firearm

Definition of weapon. from a high school dictionary

any instrument used in fighting;means of attack or defense.Swords ,spears,arrows,clubs, guns,cannons,claws,horns teeth etc. etc.

I believe most gun owners do not use their guns as weapons.

I am a gun owner not a weapon owner

chris

just thought I would throw that out to stir the pot.
 
"This is my weapon, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun." Drop and give me 50.
 
Check your primers for correct type.

It's hard to tell from the pic, but that could be a pistol primer?
 
They are definately cci 450s (one of the manual recommended)
I managed a few better pics using the "macro" setting (thanks)
The set of three are the worst, the center one jambed the pin.
The six were the pressure signs when I started backing down.
The eight are the typical firings (200 or so)
All were loaded BELOW max. Actually the final straw load was
26.5gr on a printed 27.7gr max (4.3% below printed max, roughly 52k lbs)
I've noted that 9 of the 10 are Rem brass, yet the worst was a Hornady
 
Decide one ONE brand of brass and stay with it. If you use different brands of cases, you will encounter different case volume, different neck thickness, and different neck tension. That will wreck your accuracy, and it could increase chamber pressure more than you might think.

However, I don't think this caused your problem. You could even have a broken firing pin. Sometimes the broken pin doesn't fall out, and it could still fire on occasion. I'll bet you've got a piece of primer wedged inside the bolt causing a jammed firing pin. That was great advice on learning how to field strip your bolt. I don't remember the Vangaurd bolt mechanism either. Disassembly of the bolt might be almost possible without using special tools. Find out for sure.

- Innovative
 
Just because a load you're using is below maximum in a manual it doesn't mean it's below maximum in YOUR rifle. Small bore cartridges, .22's, .20's, and .17's can be very sensitive to increases in charge wt or decreases in case capacity causing pressures to rise VERY rapidly. Larry Willis's advice to use one make of case should be heeded.

One other thing that's sort of strange is the recommendation of CCI 450's with H4895. That powder is fairly easy to ignite, and the reasons to use a magnum primer are hard to ignite powders (ball type) or a very large case capacity which the .204 doesn't have.

Always start low and work up slowly. When you see signs of excessive pressures STOP. Pulling bullets is a pain in the rump, but the problem you're experiencing or worse is a lot bigger pain. A face full of hot gas and pieces of brass can ruin more than your day! :eek::(:(:(
 
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