VFS rifle requirements

F

feffer

Member
I read the NBRSA pdf about this but I'm still confused. It sounds like any rifle that qualifies for LV or HV is legal. Is that so?

In the other score class, Hunter Bench, the rifle must be 10 lbs or less, have no more than a 6x scope, and forend width of not more than 2.25". Is there still a case capacity minimum, I think it used to be about 45gr of water. Also it must have a magazine cut-out, but not necessarily a functioning magazine?

Is it reasonable to convert an existing group benchrest rifle for VFS. I have a Hall std LV with a PPC bolt face. Could this be opened for the 30BR? The rifle doesn't have an ejector, is that something that can be added or is that impractical?

I don't think I'll compete except for local events, so I don't want to build an entirely new rifle, but if I could reasonably re-barrel my existing Hall, that could be fun.
 
Any rifle that is legal

for either LV or HV in group competition is legal for VFS in the NBRSA. There is NO caliber restriction or case capacity that comes into play. A 6PPC has just as much chance in the grand agg as a 318 Rigby. (bring on the flames)

Your Hall and mine have the same bolt face. I built mine into a 30 PPC. You could rebate the cases and make a 30 BR or do a 30 PPC or just shoot it as a 6 PPC. I will wait til I go to Webster City end of the month to decide if I shoot my 30 PPC or my 6 PPC for the State VFS Match.

For HBR, there is no longer a caliber minimum or a case minimum. You can shoot a .222 if you think it is the best you have.

David





feffer said:
I read the NBRSA pdf about this but I'm still confused. It sounds like any rifle that qualifies for LV or HV is legal. Is that so?

In the other score class, Hunter Bench, the rifle must be 10 lbs or less, have no more than a 6x scope, and forend width of not more than 2.25". Is there still a case capacity minimum, I think it used to be about 45gr of water. Also it must have a magazine cut-out, but not necessarily a functioning magazine?

Is it reasonable to convert an existing group benchrest rifle for VFS. I have a Hall std LV with a PPC bolt face. Could this be opened for the 30BR? The rifle doesn't have an ejector, is that something that can be added or is that impractical?

I don't think I'll compete except for local events, so I don't want to build an entirely new rifle, but if I could reasonably re-barrel my existing Hall, that could be fun.
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Just my opinion, but I do not think an ejector is an advantage in a VFS Rifle.

My 30BR HV Farley is just a RL no eject. Considering you have to move the Rifle from target to target after each shot, the one or two seconds it takes to take the fired case out and put a live round in seems to be a non issue. But as I said, this is just my opinion.
 
David Halblom said:
for either LV or HV in group competition is legal for VFS in the NBRSA. There is NO caliber restriction or case capacity that comes into play. A 6PPC has just as much chance in the grand agg as a 318 Rigby. (bring on the flames)

Your Hall and mine have the same bolt face. I built mine into a 30 PPC. You could rebate the cases and make a 30 BR or do a 30 PPC or just shoot it as a 6 PPC. I will wait til I go to Webster City end of the month to decide if I shoot my 30 PPC or my 6 PPC for the State VFS Match.

For HBR, there is no longer a caliber minimum or a case minimum. You can shoot a .222 if you think it is the best you have.

David
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Through the 2016 Meeting, this is correct: the caliber and case capacity rules were placed on hiatus for a three year trial period, spanning 2014, 2015, & 2016. RG
 
Shot in a VFS match at Tomball last year using my 6PPC. I shot clean but had only 16 X's. When I measured my targets with a .30 overlay I would have picked up 5 X's if I had been shooting a .30. Still wouldn't have beat Jackie though. Does anybody ever beat him at Tomball?
 
David Halblom said:
for either LV or HV in group competition is legal for VFS in the NBRSA. There is NO caliber restriction or case capacity that comes into play. A 6PPC has just as much chance in the grand agg as a 318 Rigby. (bring on the flames)

Your Hall and mine have the same bolt face. I built mine into a 30 PPC. You could rebate the cases and make a 30 BR or do a 30 PPC or just shoot it as a 6 PPC. I will wait til I go to Webster City end of the month to decide if I shoot my 30 PPC or my 6 PPC for the State VFS Match.

For HBR, there is no longer a caliber minimum or a case minimum. You can shoot a .222 if you think it is the best you have.

David
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I have a second LV PPC that will stay a group gun, so I'm not too concerned about opening up the bolt face on the Hall std. I've heard that the 30BR makes a good score gun. Accurate with a good barrel and not fussy about loads. Still mulling this over, but it seems to be a straight forward re-purpose of the rifle. I suppose the smith who does the barrel work/chambering should be the one to open the bolt face? Any suggestions about this? Since this is a 10.5 lb gun with the PPC barrel, I could go with a heavier barrel for the 30BR and still be well under the 13.5 lb limit...as long as the balance is OK.
 
feffer said:
Since this is a 10.5 lb gun with the PPC barrel, I could go with a heavier barrel for the 30BR and still be well under the 13.5 lb limit...as long as the balance is OK.
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I bought a used 30BR gun that was a 10.5 LV gun and quickly decided that I would turn it into a true LV gun and re-barreled my HV gun with a 30BR barrel. My right shoulder said "THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU".
 
adamsgt said:
I bought a used 30BR gun that was a 10.5 LV gun and quickly decided that I would turn it into a true LV gun and re-barreled my HV gun with a 30BR barrel. My right shoulder said "THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU".
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I can understand that sentiment! In the early days of Hunter Bench, I used a trued Rem action to build a 10 lb HBR in .308; good shooter but hard kick!

I laid off shooting for many years, but do still have a Seely Masker built HV but I'm loath to change it into a score gun and it is my only HV. Since I have 2 LV, I think one of them will be my candidate: heavier 30BR barrel and more weight in the butt stock...I was thinking. Once the bolt face is opened for the 30BR then that gun can no longer handle the 6PPC, right? The only way to keep the PPC bolt face is to go to something like a 30 PPC or rebate the rims on a 30BR as David Halblom suggested, right?

It sounds like you shoot a 13.5 lb 30BR free recoil?
 
30 Cal. is great for VFS and Hunter

30 Cal. is the best choice. You might want to think about 30 PPC, less powder= less recoil, same sized hole in the target. I am trying to add a photo of a target I shot this weekend at Tacoma. Not experienced at a computer, but I will try. Don
 
don carter said:
30 Cal. is the best choice. You might want to think about 30 PPC, less powder= less recoil, same sized hole in the target. I am trying to add a photo of a target I shot this weekend at Tacoma. Not experienced at a computer, but I will try. Don
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Actually, a 30 PPC would be easier and give me more options, but does it shoot as well as the 30BR? Also, I've heard the 30BR is very well mannered as far as loads go...tune the barrel once, find your load and never worry about changing it. I haven't really heard anything about the 30 PPC.
 
30 ppc

I shoot both 30 BR and 30 PPC Win matches with both. the good things about 30BR are also true about the 30 PPC Never change the load, shoots as well as the 30 BR. I use an 18 tw. barrel, 110 to 118 gr. bullets I see three 30 PPC's for sale on BR Central, made by Ralph Stewart. Don Text me your phone # and I can send you a photo # 503-812-2378 Don
 
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You might consider the 30 Major. It's based on the 6.5 Grendel case which has the same head size as a PPC. More capacity than a PPC case, a little less than a 30BR. Velocities are comparable. It uses Lapua brass and you would not have to alter you bolt face.

Rick
 
30 ppc

The 30 PPC can also be made from the 6.5 Grendel case, mine is. I am looking at both cases , 6PPC and 30 PPC. They look the same size but the larger neck would allow more powder room??? Or at least the same. I just expanded the neck on the 6 PPC, they sure look the same. Don
 
feffer said:
I can understand that sentiment! In the early days of Hunter Bench, I used a trued Rem action to build a 10 lb HBR in .308; good shooter but hard kick!

I laid off shooting for many years, but do still have a Seely Masker built HV but I'm loath to change it into a score gun and it is my only HV. Since I have 2 LV, I think one of them will be my candidate: heavier 30BR barrel and more weight in the butt stock...I was thinking. Once the bolt face is opened for the 30BR then that gun can no longer handle the 6PPC, right? The only way to keep the PPC bolt face is to go to something like a 30 PPC or rebate the rims on a 30BR as David Halblom suggested, right?

It sounds like you shoot a 13.5 lb 30BR free recoil?
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Yeah I shoot it free recoil. The HV gun has a Bat action and the bolt will handle both cases with no problem. I had sent the bolt to Bat to open up the bolt face and they called me back and said "it's already there". I had bought the gun used as HV 6ppc and shot it that way until I put the 30 BR barrel on it. I can put the 6 PPC barrel back on at any time.
 
adamsgt said:
Yeah I shoot it free recoil. The HV gun has a Bat action and the bolt will handle both cases with no problem. I had sent the bolt to Bat to open up the bolt face and they called me back and said "it's already there". I had bought the gun used as HV 6ppc and shot it that way until I put the 30 BR barrel on it. I can put the 6 PPC barrel back on at any time.
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Guess, I have more options than I first thought. OK, the 30BR rim is .4728 and the PPC is .4402 so about 1/32" difference. Not near my equipment at the moment, so I'm not sure what my Hall bolt face measures. I know is must be a bit bigger than .4402, but I'd be surprised if a .4728 case would fit. But it sounds like opening the face a bit, would not ruin it for a PPC case? Maybe the extractor will have to be altered?
 
Feffer, there is one

feffer said:
Guess, I have more options than I first thought. OK, the 30BR rim is .4728 and the PPC is .4402 so about 1/32" difference. Not near my equipment at the moment, so I'm not sure what my Hall bolt face measures. I know is must be a bit bigger than .4402, but I'd be surprised if a .4728 case would fit. But it sounds like opening the face a bit, would not ruin it for a PPC case? Maybe the extractor will have to be altered?
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problem with your thoughts about the 30BR in your Hall. You will need to have a Sako style extractor put in if you open up the boltface. The Hall extractor is VERY size specific. And Allan Hall is not about to alter his parts without charging an arm and a leg,,,,, plus more if he can. I have owned 4 of them and still own one, my VFS rig. I would opt for the 30 PPC and never look back. The various Grendal based cases/cartridges are much ado about nada, with damn expensive brass. Buy a box of 7.62x39 Lapua and rock and roll. The large primer is NO handicap. And, OBTW, the case is MORE than long enough. You find you push the shoulder back .050+ and trim that much or more after you fireform. IMR 4198 is just about perfect powder. H-4198 is fast, will work, but low density load.

David
 
feffer said:
Guess, I have more options than I first thought. OK, the 30BR rim is .4728 and the PPC is .4402 so about 1/32" difference. Not near my equipment at the moment, so I'm not sure what my Hall bolt face measures. I know is must be a bit bigger than .4402, but I'd be surprised if a .4728 case would fit. But it sounds like opening the face a bit, would not ruin it for a PPC case? Maybe the extractor will have to be altered?
Click to expand...

A couple of years ago I opened up the bolt face of Jim Hotstetler's Hall HV 6ppc to accept a 30Br.it will still extract a PPC case with no problem.

All of Stillers actions are clearanced for a .473 case, whether you order it for a 6PPC or a BR.
 
feffer said:
Is it reasonable to convert an existing group benchrest rifle for VFS. I have a Hall std LV with a PPC bolt face. Could this be opened for the 30BR? The rifle doesn't have an ejector, is that something that can be added or is that impractical?
Click to expand...

First off any LV/HV rifle is by definition a VFS rifle. The class definitions are the same. A 30 cal conversion would make it more VFS specific and likely more competative, but it is completely legal VFS as a 6 PPC. Not trying to be argumentative with the 30 PPC, 30 Grendell, 30 Beggs crowd but anything other than a BR case has its own issues, harder powder selection, special dies, etc. David Halblom is correct Alan Hall is not enthusiastic or inexpensive about opening his bolt face up. Many people simply rebate the rims of the BR case to use a PPC bolt with BR cases. 100 cases would outlast several 30BR barrels. Or any reasonably competent BR gunsmith could do the needed bolt modifications to utilize standard cases.
Dick
 
OK...I was close to convinced that a 30PPC was equal to a 30BR but evidently there are some issues (either way). Dick, you mentioned dies. I assume the way to go (for either) would be a custom FL die with neck bushings. Why would 30BR be easier/simpler/cheaper than 30PPC?

Also, a few people have mentioned rebating the rims of a 30BR to fit the PPC bolt-face. How is that done exactly? On a lathe? If so, I don't have access to one, so do I buy them already rebated from someone or send new Lapua cases to a shooter/smith who does this sort of thing? Or is there a hand method that I can do? I do have a Forster case lathe tool.
 
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