Using Bushing Dies w\o neck turning?

J

Jbordi

Guest
Hello Everyone,

Do bushings dies work that well w\o turning the oustside neck? Looking at Redding "S" dies. Seems that neck turning would be required for good results (unless you start with uniform brass).

Do any of you out there have any experience with the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Dies?

This is for a custom barrel on a 700 action. I will be using Rem. brass.

I am looking at getting away from the whole expander ball sizing method.

Thanks!
 
If you choose your bushing so that is sizes the neck enough so that the expander (one option with the S dies) only has a slight amount of work to do, you can use unturned necks, and still have relatively uniform case neck IDs. Another option, for neck sizing unturned necks, is the Lee Collet die. When it is combined with a body die, in a two stage sizing process, the results, for non semiautomatic applications, can be quite good, particularly when combined with something like the Forster Ultra micrometer seater.
 
It has been my experence (even using Lapua brass) that I get better results with unturned necks using the Lee Collet Dies.

For turned necks I do use the Redding bushing dies.
 
And remember even if you are not turning the necks on your cases the busihing dies work without greasing the inside of the neck. Just the outside which is easy to wipe clean. And also you can get the exact amount of neck tension you want.

Donald
 
Jbordi said:
Do any of you out there have any experience with the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Dies?
Click to expand...

Yes, I use it for a .223 that I shoot in factory class. Seems to work. My Savage chamber is overlarge, and cases only need FL sizing about every 10 firings.

It does use different bushings than the Wilson/Redding. I have not had the best luck with Redding bushings BTW, a couple have shaved brass and had to have their radiuses polished a bit. As you probably know, Wilson bushings will fit in a Redding die, and vice versa.
 
A bushing die is a great way to get the outside of your case necks concentric with the rest of the case body. Unfortunately the bullet sits on the inside of the case neck and if the wall thickness of your necks isn't consistent then your bullet will be offset from the rest of the case. I use a Lee collet die and Forrester seater, but if I was going to use a neck bushing die I'd turn all my case necks so they would be a consistent wall section all the way around.
 
I use Redding bushing dies and I turn no necks. I use Lapua and Win. brass.
I almost never shoot in the .2's and when I do it is a fluke, but then I probably couldn't shoot that well with the best bench rifle.
 
Thanks for all the help!

Can the LEE Collet dies be used on hunting ammo w\o needed the crimp die. How much neck tension can you get out of them?
 
With the collet dies, the neck tension is on the light side, but adequate. The one exception that I found was when I tried moly coated bullets in my .220 Swift, I needed to order a mandrel that was .001 smaller. They are not expensive. If i was concerned about neck tension for a rifle with much recoil, that would have rounds loaded in its magazine, I might try .002 smaller.
 
Jbordi said:
Thanks for all the help!

Can the LEE Collet dies be used on hunting ammo w\o needed the crimp die. How much neck tension can you get out of them?
Click to expand...

Yes. However, I would not recommend this die be used on ammunition for a lever rifle with a tube feed. You can get quite a bit of neck tension by giving the die another half turn more than the directions say.

virg
 
In 243 win Caliber- 2 different factory chambered/ rifles.

A Redding FL sizing Type-S bushing die gives me better accuracy over standard dies without neck turning. I found after taking measurement that my RCBS standard die was sizing the necks down more then needed, over .010" If you do neck turn, you will get slightly better accuracy. For it to work best, i only size 1/2 of the neck. The unsized part expands to the factory chamber after about 3 firings, centering the round in the chamber. One thing i find very strange, the front part of the neck that was sized, does not expand fully to the same diameter of the unsized 1/2 of the neck on firing. Must have something to do with brass springback?? :confused: My bushing will not size all the way to the shoulder like a standard die, even if i wanted to, not sure if this is common or not. Before i neck turn, i must size with a standard FL die.
 
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I have Redding S dies and Competition dies. The S dies will not size the neck to the shoulder, the Competition die can be adjusted to neck size to the shoulder.
 
The ordering instructions for the Lee Collet Die state, "NOT FOR SEMI AUTO RIFLES". I am assuming that this is because the die doesn't produce enough neck tension to to hold the bullet firmly in place during the cycling of a semi auto. I would think that using the "Lee Factory Crimp Die" after using the "Collet Die" would provide the necessary neck tension to hold the bullet during the cycling of a semi auto.

I have never tried this, but would be interested to hear from anyone who has.
 
With the collet dies the neck of the case cannot be pressed in, by the collet, to an inside diameter that is any smaller than the mandrel that is inside the case neck. Once the neck has been firmly pressed into contact with the mandrel, it can go no farther. To size to a smaller neck ID, a smaller mandrel is needed. You can either polish down the one that came with the die, or order one in the diameter that you require from Lee. Anyone that is using one of these dies for the first time should take it apart to get a better idea of how it works.
 
Given springback variance w/thickness variance, I don't understand the percieved advantage to collet neck sizing, over bushing downsizing followed by expansion.
There are more options with bushings and expanders, imo.
 
mikecr said:
Given springback variance w/thickness variance, I don't understand the percieved advantage to collet neck sizing, over bushing downsizing followed by expansion.
There are more options with bushings and expanders, imo.
Click to expand...

I have found the Lee Collet die to provide much less run out than a bushing die coupled with an expander. The mechanical functions are much less than with normal die operation. The collet just squeezes the 'whole' neck against the proper size mandrel and that's it. No bushing sliding down the neck followed by pulling the brass back out through the expander.

But...if one just uses the collet die exclusively, after several firings when the bolt becomes hard to close, one will have to set the shoulder back. So...I now use my Redding full length "S" type die without the expander feature.
 
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