To expand or not

G

Gina1

Guest
OK guys got a question. I've been reloading my own ammo for a couple of years now. This last year I've only been using a necking die on my fire formed brass (.223) Because the decaping assy has the expander ball, I noticed I'm constantly reworking the brass, extruding it longer (if that is the right word) so that the case needs to be trimmed to length.

Today, to try it out, I used just a decaping assy without the expander ball. None of the decaped bass required trimming. I than loaded about 20 rounds with no seating problems. To check out the reloaded rounds, I chambered them, with no problems. Haven't tried firing them as it's raining today and the range is closed.

So My question... Am I asking for problems down the road by doing this. ??

Much thanks for your thoughts on this.

Gina
 
Not a benchrest shooter but I do this with my brass at times when I have a die that won`t adjust and seems to want to give me trouble with runout. I found I can get almost 0 runout by sizeing without the expander ball and seating a bullet. Boat tails go in the easiest but I haven`t had any crushed moths or shoulders using regular flat bases either. I know neck tension is probably too much for some but it hasn`t appeared to hurt in my limited experiance with doing it.

The neck sizer shouldn`t be contacting the body of the case, and the brass should not be growing from its use. Are you possibly dragging a rough or oversize expander through the neck and pulling them and the shoulder forward making it appear the case needs trimming? Some very limited trimming is to be expected over time, but I toss my brass due to mouth splits or loose primer pockets long before the 3rd or 4th trimming is needed.
 
If you are using standard dies they tend to oversize the neck then use the expander ball to pull the neck up to a size where you can more easily seat a bullet.
If you are using standard dies without the expander ball, how much are you damaging your bullets when you seat them?
 
If you don't experience seating problems then - No, you aren't causing anything adverse. Any problems you have "down the road" will happen anyway with the same cases.

As kansasvet mentioned, you are likely to encounter case/bullet combinations that give you grief when seating bullets. You will then have a problem of the necks being too small to accept the expander ball. Not a GREAT BIG deal but a tricky spot to get out of.
 
FYI all my bullets are boat tails, so there was no problem seating them (Berger 70G VLD) Thanks for the come backs :))
 
Gina, generally speaking competitive shooters don't use expander balls, period. Most competition dies don't even have them. "bushing dies" from the various mfgrs exist to allow you to play with sizing effect without the deleterious ball.

BTW, it has been shown that damage to the base is one of the biggest if not the single biggest buggerup you can get in the loading process....... PERFECT bases and PERFECT crowns (some guys recut their crowns weekly) give cleaner launches.

al
 
You can reduce the seating force required by knocking a "skosh" or two off the necks with a neck turning tool. Careful not to take too much or your neck tension won't be enough when the necks work harden and develop some spring back.

Al has the better suggestion to use a bushing type neck sizer.....
 
LOL, wow for a simple gal that just likes shooting at targets (long distance) it's deeper down the rabbit hole I go. Both in knowlege and $$. Bushing die it is.
Thank you for the information. It's been 3 years since I started bench rest shooting. From the first silly time I brought a hunting rifle to a match, shooting surplus 30-06 ball ammo, I've been learning. My first Savage rifle, a lupold scope, the difference hand load ammo can make, always something more to make me a better shot.
This site has been a great help, so thank you for all your inputs.

Gina
 
Most of my rifles don't need cases loaded with dies with expanders, or I remove the expander and with Redding dies the decapping pin nut from their carbide expanders holds the pin in place. But I've got a couple of .223's that I use a Redding bushing FL die on with different NS bushings, and their carbide expander that floats on the decapping spindle. With a bushing of the correct size so that the necks are sized just enough, the expander barely touches the insides of the necks. Just enough to even them up a bit. I know it's not proper BR technique, and I've never checked the necks for eccentricity, but targets and prairie dogs shot with this ammo is plenty good enough for my uses.

BTW, a VLD inside neck chamfering tool eases bullet seating quite a bit and is easier on bullet bases. It likely works better with flat base bullets than boattails, but it works well with both. The one I just got is a spiral fluted number from Sinclair Int'l and it cuts brass like a hot knife through butter with no chattering.
 
Gina..you "silly rabbit".....we are all tumbling down there with you,my dad used to say ,,,"you dont stop learnin till theyr throwing dirt in your face"....shooting is like everything else,,,it changes/evolvs ,,what worked 20 yrs/10yrs/1yr ago may not be the best today....get a Redding type "S" die and a bushing aprox .002-.003 smaller than the loaded neck and let us know how it works....Roger
 
OK, guys... I finally got my Redding competition S bushing necking/decapping die. WOW, what a difference !! Did 50 rounds last weekend, not one case needed trimming. Checked concentricity and it was spot on.
Again, thanks for all your input. Weather permiting will be shoting this Sat.
 
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