Still working on tooling, made a Spider Chuck.

F

frwillia

Guest
At least that seems as good a name as any. I measured through the spindle on my lathe and figured I couldn't make a barrel shorter than about 22". I saw the earlier thread on the new Grizzly spider chuck. I wanted one but needed it in D1-4.

It occurred to me that removing the 4J from it's backing plate to make a spider chuck was a reasonable proposition. I don't use the 4J for much, but if I left the chuck backing plate full OD it could be put back quickly if the need arose. There was a 1-1/8" thick piece of 6" diameter mystery-steel rod end in my metal archive picked up years ago off a drop rack which looked like it would work just fine. It did.

This is the result:

Doneopenflush1RS.jpg


The spider chuck body is a clean up cut less than 6" OD, a couple of cleanup cuts less than 1-1/8" thick, has a 2" hole bored in the center - the chuck backing plate is ~8" OD. I counter bored ~1.5" deep for the 3/8"-24 socket head cap screw spider bolts leaving ~1/2" of hole depth available for threads. The result is that with 2" cap screws, which I dog pointed, the heads are flush with the OD when open enough to be clamped on a 1.5" OD work piece yet will still screw into touch each other in the center with out bottoming out. I really wanted to make it so it didn't have anything sticking out waiting to grab clothing, fingers, or tools.

The chuck backing plate had a 3.14" diameter hub that protrudes out .206" so I machined a matching recess in the back of the spider chuck plate. The spider chuck just barely slides on over the hub which will hold it nicely centered. It mounts to the back plate with M10x1.5 socket head cap screws 50mm long.

Total cost was $10.17 which is what it cost locally to buy bolts (including the Metric bolts to mount the chuck to the 4J backplate). I got my investment back in the fun of making it.

After practicing with it I find it is much faster to align things with the easy turning 3/8-24 spider bolts than the rough very coarse threaded 4J chuck.

I'm getting closer to being able to do my first barrel.

Fitch
 
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I purchased a 5" dia. D1-4 blank from CDCC for about $45 or so, I think. Added an aluminum ring similar to yours and 3/8-24 cap screws in counterbored holes. My aluminum ring is tapped with blind holes and attached by cap screws from the rear.
I've had a small 4-jaw on the left side of my lathe for years, it is my spider for holding the "other" end of barrels. I removed it and made an aluminum spider for that end. It is a bit shorter than the 4-jaw was and adjustments are much finer since I used 1/4-28 cap screws.
Haven't measured the minimum barrel length that can now be done with the new spiders but the finer adjustment on both ends was worth the effort.

Jay, Idaho
 
Frwilla

Nice to see someone finally make something without the screws sticking out where they can rip your finger or arm off. Nice job. Don
 
IF you fail to remove the chuck key, you usually hear a strange noise when the lathe is started.

Jay, Idaho
 
Don, after going to the UK lathes site, I believe after looking at them, My Uncle Bill might just have some. Jay Lynn just needs to drive to Uncle Bill's and check them out. Jay, I stand to the side of my chuck and see how far it throws it.
Butch
 
The spider chuck allows ~3" reduction in minimum in barrel length.

If I might get back on topic for a moment :(

I made some measurements this morning. I went down to the shop and stuck the barrel Steve L. loaned me through the headstock. It's chambered in 6BR to fit a Savage action. It measures 23-3/16" long overall.

With the entire threaded portion sticking out of the spider chuck so the threads on the breech end are 3/8" proud of the spider chuck face to have some working room, I have 4 inches of barrel sticking out past the spider bolts on the back end of the spindle. So, at least for now, I think I can easily do as short as a 19" finished length barrel through the headstock for my Savage. Probably a bit shorter barrel for a Remington. This Savage barrel has long threads to accomodate the barrel nut. I don't plan to use a barrel nut so if I wanted to I could probably make it a bit shorter yet, but I don't see any need for that.

That will cover anything I'm likely to want to do. I gained about ~3" because, using the same technique, ~ 22" was as short as was going to be possible to do with the 4J.

So I gain in range of barrel lengths, improve the ease of alignment, and increase the safety (with a smooth OD) for an investment of less than eleven bux and a few hours of fun in the shop. I love it when that happens.

Fitch
 
Very, very nice piece.

Here's a setup I made. 0-1800psi through barrel coolant is a wonderful thing!

Quick set up/quick release High speed/high pressure hydralic union, braided hoses, pressurized (HIGH) through barrel coolant, and big burly filters. (cause the stock ones blow up and shoot oil EVERYWHERE)

Experience never comes cheap. . .

What else does a single guy do over Xmas break?? (2005)

Quickreleasecoupler.jpg


Hydraulicunion.jpg


Filters.jpg


coolantTsunami.jpg
 
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NesikaChad said:
Very, very nice piece.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Here's a setup I made. 0-1800psi through barrel coolant is a wonderful thing!

Quick set up/quick release High speed/high pressure hydralic union, braided hoses, pressurized (HIGH) through barrel coolant, and big burly filters. (cause the stock ones blow up and shoot oil EVERYWHERE)
Click to expand...

Wow.

Do you have a picture of that with the thing not rotating?

Did you make the filter block? I've not seen one that looks quite like that.

What are you using for a suction filter?

I bought a rotary coolant union on E-bay, I haven't gotten the rest of the stuff yet.

If you have a piping schematic I'd be interested to see how you have it all connected together.

I'm planning to use a hydraulic pump at around 1.5 - 2 gpm pressure limited to around 100 - 150 psi with a relief valve. I'm planning on some sort of solenoid valve that will shut off flow when the lathe motor is turned off to minimize the number of coolant baths I take.

I can see where 1800 psi would definitely require some special consideration. Looks like you have CNC machine with a pretty good coolant shield.

Back to my world, on the discharge side there are quite a few filters available at 200 psi and lower pressures. I haven't figured out what to use as a filter on the suction side of the pump.

Experience never comes cheap. . . .

What else does a single guy do over Xmas break?? (2005)
Click to expand...

What else indeed? :D

Fitch
 
Wet-n-Wild

frwillia said:
Thanks.



Wow.

Do you have a picture of that with the thing not rotating?

Sorry, I don't. Not here anyway.

Did you make the filter block? I've not seen one that looks quite like that.

Yes. Necessity is the mother of all invention and when you pump 400lbs of oil pressure through a pair of System One drag racing filters (cause they said I could) and they grenade all over the shop, it's necessary to build a pair of filter enclosures that'll tolerate the pressure. . . I had oil dripping from the ceiling, the walls, a small lake on the floor had formed, you name it.

Those enclosures are 3/4" thick. The end caps are 4340 pre hard.

What are you using for a suction filter?

Suction filter? Well, just sort of a waterfall effect to remove the heavy particulate, then through a big ol panty/stocking filter right before the pump. The last two in the photo were to screen out any remaining fine particulate before it ran through the hydraulic union. Carbide seals are tough, but not that tough!

I bought a rotary coolant union on E-bay, I haven't gotten the rest of the stuff yet.

If you have a piping schematic I'd be interested to see how you have it all connected together.

I don't, but I can run through it easy enough. Suction to filter to pump to filters to regulator valve that splits to a dump hose. Pressure side of reg valve has a T that runs to gauge with the other side running to the union. Union has a gun drilled "dead center" that delivers cutting oil to the barrel.

I'm planning to use a hydraulic pump at around 1.5 - 2 gpm pressure limited to around 100 - 150 psi with a relief valve. I'm planning on some sort of solenoid valve that will shut off flow when the lathe motor is turned off to minimize the number of coolant baths I take.

You can certainly do that, but believe me. After getting hosed once or twice you'll know where the switch is! Besides, even at 100psi it'll make a racket. You'll know when its on.

I can see where 1800 psi would definitely require some special consideration. Looks like you have CNC machine with a pretty good coolant shield.

Harrison Alpha 1330U. It had its problems in the early days but turned into one bad azz machine for barrel fitting.

Back to my world, on the discharge side there are quite a few filters available at 200 psi and lower pressures. I haven't figured out what to use as a filter on the suction side of the pump.

Water fall traps to a stocking filter. REM COOL 2300 pump is a turn key set up for this. Call up Concept Machine sales for more information.


I'm leaving the best part for last. I had PTG make some through coolant reamers. That's the CHIT right there! I made my own floating reamer holder and just put pressurized oil to it.

Was pretty cool. Too bad the company went to hell. I'd certainly still be there. Greatest job I've ever had.



What else indeed? :D

Fitch
Click to expand...


Have fun!
 
Final Thoughts

I'd encourage you to look at carbide reamers. Carbide stuff from PTG uses a much heavier wall thickness on the pilots. this allows them to be fluted in the smaller calibers.

The HSS stuff is just too thin to cut. You can do the "dremel the screw" trick but it's not the same.

The answer for HSS is the through tooling coolant, but it's not cheap and the web section on some reamers does get pretty thin. The holes exited right at the shoulder/case junction. Be best to talk to Dave about it.

Made for some crazy chip evacuation on the little 20 cal reamers!

Good luck.
 
That looks pretty wild! I can't imagine what it's like when a line lets go!!
 
NesikaChad, please post pics of the reamers. Does this still apply to low pressure low speed operations? My lathe doesn't have an enclosure and yes I know exactly where the switch is :D Did the dremel the screw trick.
 
Nice spider chuck Fitch. There actually might be a good use to the pos 3 jaw chi-com chuck I have buried somewhere.
 
slugger said:
That looks pretty wild! I can't imagine what it's like when a line lets go!!
Click to expand...

That'd be why you see the braided hose and fittings. It's good stuff and I never had an issue while there.
 
PEI Rob said:
NesikaChad, please post pics of the reamers. Does this still apply to low pressure low speed operations? My lathe doesn't have an enclosure and yes I know exactly where the switch is :D Did the dremel the screw trick.
Click to expand...

I never ran the tooling at high rpm. Experiments with it just resulted in more phone calls to Dave Kiff. . .:D

I don't have photos of the reamers. Just so there isn't any confusion, I did all this stuff when I worked for Nesika/Dakota as one of the production managers. Hard as I tried, they wouldn't let me out the door with the lathe when I quit in June of 06. (dern it:D)
 
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