Sooo, I CAN use an "X" bag for he front?

A

alinwa

oft dis'd member
I was specifically told I COULD NOT use a "Uncle Bud's Bulls Bag" under my HV Group gun back in Thee Early Oughts (maybe 2002-ish??)

Now, I am setting up my backup Hunter gun using a slimmer forend, taller but narrower all the way back thru the trigger group because I'm getting better feedback from it. I'm supporting the SIDES instead of using the flat bottom. Might be dumb but that's not the point.....

IS IT LEGAL?
 
I beilieve that the requirements are: one piece bag, half inch thick everywhere it touches the stock, makes contact across the entire bottom of the stock
 
Sooo, I'm thinking the thing I ran afoul of back in the day was the "guiding means" verbiage when approaching the "X" bag varmint setup....

IBS= 1" thick front bag
NBRSA= 1/2" thick front bag

And no definition for "depth" or "length" or whatever it would be..... so I guess I'm back to my conventional plate for now. I have plenty of 2 1/4 inch bags....
 
Guiding means would be any feature, or combination of features that allows the rifle to be returned to battery and fired without having to be re-aimed. Practically speaking, getting a freebe every so often would not be a problem, but if you can literally shoot your rig like a rail, then you have guiding means.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Guiding means would be any feature, or combination of features that allows the rifle to be returned to battery and fired without having to be re-aimed. Practically speaking, getting a freebe every so often would not be a problem, but if you can literally shoot your rig like a rail, then you have guiding means.
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Is a varmint "X" bag "guiding means?"
 
alinwa said:
I was specifically told I COULD NOT use a "Uncle Bud's Bulls Bag" under my HV Group gun back in Thee Early Oughts (maybe 2002-ish??)

Now, I am setting up my backup Hunter gun using a slimmer forend, taller but narrower all the way back thru the trigger group because I'm getting better feedback from it. I'm supporting the SIDES instead of using the flat bottom. Might be dumb but that's not the point.....

IS IT LEGAL?
Click to expand...

No, not under current IBS RULES. Here is the the rule -

The front bag must be such that the rifle can be easily removed in the vertical direction without any front sand bag adjustment. The bag must also be designed to maintain a 100% contact with the bottom of the fore-end when in its shooting position. The cover and filling of the front bag shall meet the requirements described in paragraph (3) concerning the rear bags. The front bag shall also be a minimum of one half inch thick in the vertical direction within the width of the fore-end.

The 100% part is why that type of bag would not be allowed.
 
willytp said:
No, not under current IBS RULES. Here is the the rule -

The front bag must be such that the rifle can be easily removed in the vertical direction without any front sand bag adjustment. The bag must also be designed to maintain a 100% contact with the bottom of the fore-end when in its shooting position. The cover and filling of the front bag shall meet the requirements described in paragraph (3) concerning the rear bags. The front bag shall also be a minimum of one half inch thick in the vertical direction within the width of the fore-end.

The 100% part is why that type of bag would not be allowed.
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OK..... so I'm in complete conformance with all that because this rifle is ROUNDED forend, like a Rem700, not flat on the bottom. I'm just using the sides to keep it vertical, instead of the bottom to keep it "flat".... I built the stock tall with flat sides.

It lifts out.

I have several 'X' bags and the one I tried to use 20yrs ago for 3" wide forend DOES HAVE a wide flat and does rub clear across the bottom of the HV rifle I proposed. At the time I walked away because the official ruling of "does nor comply" without any sort of reason or explanation pissed me off. ("guiding means" came up but, seriously???) I couldn't afford a Farley at the time. And I was told my setup wasn't legal "because it wasn't normal"... now I have several joysticks, and several other adjustable setups..... I have 2 competitive and completely conventional score setups, but I've found nothing ideal_FOR ME_ for score yet.

I like to shoot with a positive stop.

I own the rulebooks for both org.s and am/have been member of both IBS and NBRSA but sometimes I'm getting "dude, if you don't want to copy everybody else.... go away!"

I find that attitude weird.
 
I own the rulebooks for both org.s and am/have been member of both IBS and NBRSA but sometimes I'm getting "dude, if you don't want to copy everybody else.... go away!"

I find that attitude weird.[/QUOTE]
Al,
You must comply...you must be assimilated...resistance is futile...

Keep fighting the fight brother, it's the radicals on the edges that eventually move the middle.
I'm still being told that you can't preload and tuners don't work.:p
One of my favorite tag lines is "that'll never work"
Regards,
Greg
 
wfcustom said:
I own the rulebooks for both org.s and am/have been member of both IBS and NBRSA but sometimes I'm getting "dude, if you don't want to copy everybody else.... go away!"

I find that attitude weird.
Click to expand...
Al,
You must comply...you must be assimilated...resistance is futile...

[/QUOTE]

resistance is NOT futile!.jpg
 
Boyd Allen said:
I would say no, but it may not qualify under some of the other bag rules.
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WHAT other bag rules? :)

There's like 3 of them, none pertinent to shooting over a live vermin setup so fer's I can see. Why just a few weeks ago I had no rest for my Heavy so I shot a 600yd NBRSA Match basically over a rolled up coat (crossfired too LOL!)

Do I need to stuff a shotbag full of sand under the 'X' bag to make the bottom legal? Ducktape them together to make them one piece?? SEW them together so some anal olde pharte can't claim I'm stacking stuff (I once got shut down here on the board for wanting to stuff a pingpong paddle under my rear bag to give it a hannle..... "Dunrud OK!, pingy-pongy NO OK!")

I engage in several competitive sports and the rule is simple as regards innovation/experimentation "if it's not defined as excluded IT'S LEGAL!"

C'mon man, it's like the stupid tuner thang..... it went from "NO!" ......to "huhhh??"........ to "let's all have a special meeting because if some retard stands up to adjust their barrel during a match and shoots his eye out" ........to "huhhh?" ........to "but-but-but!"......... to Hnnngaaahhhh?........ to "what took so long???"
 
The problem with a lot of rules is that they are written in a way that would be impossible or at least very subjective to enforce. 100% contact is one of those. To get 100% contact with a sandbag the stock would almost have to be bedded in to the sand bag.

The NBRSA has loosened up their rules pertaining to sand bags in the past few years. The front sand bag has to be filled with sand and must be at least 1/2” thick. The rifle no longer has to be able to be lifted straight up out of the sand bag. The new Edgewood bag that goes over the top of the rifle sides is a result of this rule change. Also gone is the 1/4” deflection rule where the sandbag has to be able to be deflected 1/4” with finger pressure. It was impossible to enforce and if someone wants to shoot with their sandbags rock hard, who cares. The old benchrest adage “I’ve never been beat by a sandbag” is pretty well true. Although your own sandbag setup might cause you to get beat.

I’m sure all organizations could stand a review of their rules with the idea is this rule enforceable as written or is it even a necessary rule.
 
Mike Bryant said:
I’m sure all organizations could stand a review of their rules with the idea is this rule enforceable as written or is it even a necessary rule.
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Mike,
That's the most intelligent thing Iv'e heard all week.
If you actually sit down and read a lot of rule books (not just limited to the NBRSA) you can find conflicting rules in the same book.
Kind of like the US Tax Code...and they like it that way.
The usual response to why do we do this is "cause we've always done it that way":rolleyes:
Greg
 
FBecigneul said:
He can use anything he wants until he starts winning. How’s that for an adage?
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BTDT

is why I'm getting ironed out BEFORE trying this new-to-me thing

because I WILL WIN, at some point, normally before I'm ready if history proves out
 
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