Shooting multiple rifles at a shoot

J

josh shrum

New member
I looked through the rules but could not locate the answer I am seeking.

Is it possible for a shooter to shoot both Heavy and Light VFS as well as Hunter at a given event (provided there are enough relays/shooters present)?

If there is a rule regarding this please just point me in the right direction (page/section).

Thanks,
Josh
 
Yes at least in IBS

If you did, you would have two chances at winning in VFS. The Eubers usually do this when possible. Back in the day when we had three classifications, VFS, VH, and Htr, many Maine shooters shot all three classes just about every time out. With the cost of components more than doubling in recent years, most shoot but one now. As far as SSOY points go shooting a heavy and a light in VFS, only the first rifle shot is the one used to determine points. Hope this helps,
 
I know you are talking about the IBS, but just to answer the question someone will ask......the NBRSA just shoots one class of VFS. The class can be shot with any Rifle that is legal in class Heavy Varmint.
 
Randy, you pretty much gave me everything I needed for answers, thanks!

I agree that the financial aspect of running 3 guns at a shoot would be steep.

Now all I have to do is get the practical side of my brain to relay that to the other side of my brain, which cannot wait to get down to Orangeburg this weekend and do some more shooting!
 
At one time not too long ago

Randy Jarvais said:
If you did, you would have two chances at winning in VFS. The Eubers usually do this when possible. Back in the day when we had three classifications, VFS, VH, and Htr, many Maine shooters shot all three classes just about every time out. With the cost of components more than doubling in recent years, most shoot but one now. As far as SSOY points go shooting a heavy and a light in VFS, only the first rifle shot is the one used to determine points. Hope this helps,
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You could enter two or three heavy's in the vfs and each would count as a separate entry each with a chance at a win. That changed so now one has to be a heavy and one a light. I think the rule should be one class one gun, but that's not the way it is. Darryl Loker did it when competing with Jim Goody years ago for shooter of the year.
 
josh shrum said:
Is it possible for a shooter to shoot both Heavy and Light VFS as well as Hunter at a given event (provided there are enough relays/shooters present)?
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A person can shoot a LV and a HV in VFS . HOWEVER only the first gun shot counts for anything except. The second gun is shot for purpose of setting a record only.

The same is true of VH and Hunter rifles , a person can shoot 4 different class rifles within the rules but only two count for anything unless you get really lucky.

It gets even more complicated a person can shoot 2 LV as long as he declares one as a HV, but you can never shoot two HV (except for fun)

Same is true with two Hunters if one is declared a VH, but two VH's does not work.

Dick Grosbier.
 
I beg to differ...at least for IBS

Sorry Dick but you can shoot a HV and a LV and both count toward the agg. standing EXCEPT for shooter of the year points. The same is true for a VH and Htr gun in the Hunter class. Generally it is left to the host club as to whether they would award a person multiple prizes for multiple placements. I know for a fact that one club in Maine has awarded as many as a person won. If I remember the words correctly it was something like this, "the man paid his money and if he is good enough to win two, he gets two." Do you really think people would shoot a LV and HV in VFS at a National if they couldn't win with either gun?? If you find language in the rules that limit placement awards for multiple guns in the same class, please direct me to it as I have found none. Dick, however, is correct about not being allowed to shoot two HV or two VH in the same class.
 
Randy Jarvais said:
Sorry Dick but you can shoot a HV and a LV and both count toward the agg. standing EXCEPT for shooter of the year points. The same is true for a VH and Htr gun in the Hunter class. Generally it is left to the host club as to whether they would award a person multiple prizes for multiple placements. I know for a fact that one club in Maine has awarded as many as a person won. If I remember the words correctly it was something like this, "the man paid his money and if he is good enough to win two, he gets two." Do you really think people would shoot a LV and HV in VFS at a National if they couldn't win with either gun?? If you find language in the rules that limit placement awards for multiple guns in the same class, please direct me to it as I have found none. Dick, however, is correct about not being allowed to shoot two HV or two VH in the same class.
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IBS does does not get into how clubs choose to award Club prizes at an IBS match. You cannot win IBS awards except with the gun shot on the earlier relay. If you win the VFS Nationals with a LV shot on relay three and were 10th with a HV shot on 2nd relay you did not win you will not get the title, the awards or the recognition and the silly second gun setup we have now would probably be done completely away with at the next annual meeting . The membership did not like a person having two shots at winning and voted to disallow it the only concession was to let a 2nd gun be shot for record only.Originally you had to declare which gun counted, there were issues with that so it was changed to being automatically the first gun shot.

IBS does by the way have the provision to shoot LV & HV for Score as separate classes this was voted in at the suggestion of David Apple, but this has never that I recall been done, as it pretty much kills chance of getting any PR points.
 
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This is what I found in the IBS Rules

VI Score Shooting Rules

B. Classifications
3) Varmint for Score shall be fired with any rifle meeting the Light Varmint or Heavy Varmint rules as described sections V.B.2 and V.B.3 of this rulebook. Records will be recognized for Light Varmint and Heavy Varmint Rifles and both rifles may compete as an individual class within the Varmint for Score class. There shall be no distinction between Light Varmint and Sporter records. They shall be considered singly as a 10-½ pound class.

E. Rules for Procedure
7) Firing more than one rifle of different classes is permitted. Only one rifle of each class may be fired and consider that LVS and HVS are separate since there are two records. This would eliminate the practice of individuals firing multiple HV or multiple LV or multiple VH or multiple HTR rifles.

What is meant in B.3 above that "both rifles may compete as an individual class within the Varmint for Score Class."? Does that not mean that each will be considered on its own merits? Along with E.7 which states "Firing more than one rifle of different classes is permitted." I take that to mean each is qualified to win as no where does it state that when shooting multiple guns within VFS only the first gun fired will be considered for placement.

Dick, I think you may be using the language in SSOY points rule for this discussion when it is not pertinent. Again I ask for clarification as to where in the rule do the rules forbid placements to either or both rifles.
 
Randy Jarvais said:
What is meant in B.3 above that "both rifles may compete as an individual class within the Varmint for Score Class."?.
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It means clubs may register a LVFS class and a HVFS class as two different classes. The rule is there but as I previously stated it pretty much kills your chances for Precision Rifleman points with the turnouts we get these days. This option has never been exercised that I recall. I do not believe the Score Committee has even addressed how they would handle the SSOY points since it never came up.

Randy Jarvais said:
Dick, I think you may be using the language in SSOY points rule for this discussion when it is not pertinent..
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No Sir
I am not
 
Here is an example
Mayberry Gun club (fictitios) schedules a LVFS/HVFS 100yd registered IBS Match, 19 HVFS rifles and 14 LVFS rifles show up 10 people are shooting two guns. LVFS is shot in the morning, HVFS in the afternoon. This is a situation covered by our rules. I was there the day it was written into the rules. I did not write the wording. IBS will send 2 agg patches, nobody gets any PR points as no agg. had 20 shooters and I have no idea how many SOY points will be awarded.

This is my understanding of that rule it would work nicely if we were getting 40+ shooters and many shooting two guns as at a group match. Score matches are typically smaller we struggle to get 20 shooters in the combined VFS class 20 is the magic number to get a PR half point.
 
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I understand what Dick

is alluding to, but see Randy's point also as the rule is vague, not uncommon in our rule book. Better that it should state that a LV and HV may be shot in VFS but only the first rifle shot will count for PS points or IBS awards. The second rifle would be shot just to see if one could break a record. That might entice such a shooter to shoot a hunter gun in the 2 gun competition?
 
glp said:
the rule is vague, not uncommon in our rule book.
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Greg
I seem to remember once upon a time you made a valiant effort to completely clean up the wording of the IBS rulebook. I will not say it is an impossible task, but it seems to have eluded several attempts so far. At least now we have the ability to do a blanket update if we can find some people willing to undertake the task
 
Thanks Dick

Thanks Dick for the clarification of the wording for B. 3. I now understand what the language is intending to say. That idea had never crossed my mind about splitting VFS into two classes, one LV and one HV.

I have to admit though that I am still struggling with E. 7 language. "Firing more than one rifle of different classes is permitted. Only one rifle of each class may be fired and consider that LVS and HVS are separate"

I know that firing more than one rifle of different classes is permitted could mean firing a rifle in VFS and also in Hunter, but immediately thereafter it goes into only being able to shoot one rifle of each class (eliminating shooting two heavies or two VH) and specifies that LVS and HVS are separate. Separate what?? Isn't the language pertaining to classifications. As it says that LVS and HVS are separate, I took that to mean that a person could shoot both (which they can). What is lost is any wording stipulating that only one rifle is considered for agg placement. It would make more sense to have it worded similar to how the score committee worded the SSOY rules which states that "LVFS and HVFS will compete as one class. Points will be awarded based solely on the Rifle shot on the earliest relay." Now that wording leaves no doubt. All we need to do is change the word "Points" to "agg. placement".

Am I the only one that believed that the rules allowed someone to shoot both a LVS and HVS and each were eligible for agg. placements?
 
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Randy Jarvais said:
Am I the only one that believed that the rules allowed someone to shoot both a LVS and HVS and each were eligible for agg. placements?
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Probably not Randy,
It is so complicated I remember the day it was passed at the winter meeting. After we argued about the parameters for about 25 min we took a restroom break, as I stood in line next to Wayne France I asked him what the heck we had ended up approving because I was lost. Then a few years later we went through the similar issues when Htr and VH were recombined. Surely you remember the conversation about can a Hunter rifle declared to be shooting VH set a VH record?
 
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