Shooters poll

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JohnsonGunsmith

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Guys I am attempting to build a range on my land and if I make the investment I would like to know if people would be willing to shoot here. I have room to go out to 600 yards the only problem being that the berms reqired to to completely block the development that is just over the hill and also the home I live in would be prohibitively expensive. My solution would be to place to the sides of every bench some kind of "shot gaurd" . This would be made of metal or wood that would make the shooter have everything pointing forward so that no shots could be fired in a direction that could cause a problem. This would only be long enough to make it safe and would in no way interfere with the shooter and a full view of the targets would be availible. I am just attempting to make it as safe as possible in this sue happy world. What I want to know is would this bother you if you went to a range that had something like this? Also would this cause any ricochet issues I am not seeing. In a perfect world everyone shoots safely and with the benchrest rules I see no issues but I would have this range open to shooting hunting rifles etc. which are not placed in a rest that holds them and they might get pointed in an unsafe direction sometimes because the general gun owner tends to not practice the safety tecniques that benchresters do. So would this safety precaution keep you (the people I am wanting to shoot here) from coming to this range? Thanks and I appreciate your time.
 
I live not too far from you just south of Hulen mall. While I currently shoot benchrest I shot a lot of long range prone, Palma and fullbore before my knees got to painful to get up and down from the mat. Since the Mineral Wells range is shutting down there is almost no place to shoot more than 200 yards. I have lunch every friday with a bunch of guys who are long range competitors and would love to be able to shoot out to 600 yards if they can do it prone. Don't know how much of an issue this might be for you.
 
Adamsgt

will send you a PM check your messages and thanks for the reply. You guys are the types I want, competitive shooters that are safe. I might just do a private range that requires a membership. I am not in it to get rich but it is hard to spend tens of thousands of dollars and just take a loss.
 
Even a private membership only range might not be enough unless members were carefully screened. I've seen range members shoot things up for no good and apparent reason which has always struck me as like shooting up your own place. Some people act like they weren't born in a barn, but out in the pasture or on the prairie someplace.
 
Sir:
I'm a rimfire benchrest shooter and I shoot and belong to a private range just a few miles Southeast of Ft. Worth. Our club is currently rebuilding it's 50 yard range and I can tell you there are issues you'll have to deal with that you won't believe until you get started. Number One, ANY SHOT FIRED FROM THE RANGE FIRING LINE MUST NOT BE ABLE TO LEAVE THE RANGE! Building a range that meets that requirement is the only way to protect people and property on the other side of your 600 yards.
MKLSV
 
Another concern

I think your main concern won't be from a shot leaving the range but from the noise. If you have a "development" close by, I think sound will be your major problem with residents. The sound of gunfire will magnify all of their other concerns about the potential of danger.
 
You may want to check out what liability insurance will cost. Our municipal range was closed because of the liability issues raised when a Boy Scout was "apparently" hit with a spent bullit approximately one mile away and 90 degrees from the range. The town wanted no more suits.
 
Leroy
Go out to another local range and talk with the people in charge as they have probaly seen it all.
I would imagine some kind of cinder block arrangement or concrete pipe would contain the bullets and help prevent errant shots.
Up here we get people walking to the line with gun in hand and the bolt closed with the muzzle all over the place.Luckily we have a coast guard facility very close by and they hire the guys there to keep an eye on the shooters.
Lots of AK slam fires and pistol shooters wanting to drop alot of rounds in a hurry keeps the crew real busy yelling at them.Our biggest problem is always the pistol shooters who ignore the no rapid fire rule.
Lynn
 
Lynn

I am sorry for the confusion but I am not Leroy Johnson. I have a gunsmithing business called Johnson gunsmithing and Leroy has Johnson Precision Gunsmithing. It is my understanding he is a super guy and I just wanted to clear that up so no one gets upset. I only hope to build the quality reputation Leroy has after putting in my time. Thanks and I just want to make sure to be clear on who I am so there are no misunderstandings. I appologise for the name being so close just used my last name and was not very creative I guess. Thanks for all of your responses.
 
OK, I'm no expert here but I've got the NRA Range Books here and I've set up two private ranges for myself and been involved with maybe 6 public and private. It's a hobby with me.

Here's my take.....on top of agreeing with all that's been said.

I'll start by using something else entirely to illustrate where I'm coming from. My first "fun" property I ended up having about 7 acres of rolling land that was being tree-farmed. I was raising kids, riding dirt bikes and quads and Honda Oddyseys and generally enjoying life.... and I have relatives who own dirt moving equipment. One of my cousins contracted to build a "Tuff Trucks" race course at the local fairgrounds. What a BLAST!!! He got free reign to make a course designed to tip rigs over and send them into the tules, jumps and twisty-windys and all sorts of stuff. Needless to say myself and another cousin decided "what the hey!" We both set up courses, just for fun. I mean, what could be cooler than having friends over and being able to do what you want right there???

And fun they were.

Word got out.

Someone nearly got hurt on my track...

Someone did get hurt on my friends track......

We started talking about waivers and sign-off sheets and homeowners insurance and such. I called my insurance agent.

He very nearly cancelled my policy on the spot.

I had my own private range on the same property...... same thing, word got out. Friends of friends of friends. I had to send a guy home because we couldn't find his first round on the paper. Tensions built.

I took the track out, my friend took his out and I completely shut my range OFF except for personal invitation only. My current setup is invitation only, very low key and completely alcohol free, NO exceptions. (((This has always been my informal rule starting back with the bike tracks. As you can imagine this doesn't set well with some people!))) Anyway, I had to come to grips with the fact that in my situation I'd rather lose acquaintances than risk my livelihood and family. My property is set up for Hunter Education so I get asked, a lot. And I've got lots of people bugging me to make it public. I've even got people trying to guilt me into it because my situation is kinda' unique in that I can probably never be threatened by neighbors moving in. I'm removed enough that I can shoot 24/7 yet I'm only 15min out of town..... I keep the range pretty brushy so it doesn't look too inviting.....

Now, here's where I'm gonna' get in trouble..... :) ...... I'll probably NEVER make it public. Because a lot of shooters are absolute jerks.

People are WEIRD!!

In My Opinion.

I mean, WHY would anyone shoot a sign? Or another mans cow? Or his tractor? Or his barn? Or cut his fences? Or shoot off his electrical wires? Or shoot holes in his irrigation system? Or shoot up the target frames? Or set cans on the berm? Or leave trash? Or clean their gun and leave the patches on the ground? Or leave their targets out? Or just set there and argue with the rules???? etc etc, all things I've personally seen and many more.....

My creed is very simple..... when I'm in another man's house I abide by his rules. Period, end of story. Even if I've rented time in his house that doesn't make it mine. If the sign on the wall says "wipe your feet, keep your dawg in the car and cover your mouth when you sneeze" then that's what I do. If I don't like the environment I don't come back, but I don't break the rules. WHATEVER the Range Rules are they're THE WORD. I don't have to know why, I don't have to know anything but the rules... I mean I'm a smoker fer cryin' out loud but I've never smoked where it's not welcomed.

However I don't find this sentiment everywhere. I find an awful lot of folks just CHAFE at rules. Especially if they've paid their pittance to use the property. If they're not bending the rules they're ignoring them. Or they go off on a spiel about "how it is on THEIR range" over on Ferbegnoggin County......

I quit going to public ranges 20yrs ago because of this. Too many people think that because they're "members of the club" they can do what they want. Or they're just careless and don't take the rules seriously and get mortally offended when someone tries to correct them. Or they abide by the rules for a while but kinda' let them slip over time.... And then there's "the Good Ol' Boys Club" where once't you've paid your dues you get to flaunt the rules. In front of others.

AND.... all that said...... real accidents DO happen, even to careful people.

So anyway, sorry about the (maybe off topic) mini-rant but as one who's really tried to share his passion with others I'll opine that IF I ever decide to get involved in setting up a public range I'll probably either go straight to the local police department and try to get them to involve themselves right from the get-go, make it a "Training Facility" with the blessings of the local bureaucracy, or get so far out of town that errant rounds are a non-issue.

I really hope that whatever you do it turns out to be a positive experience.

I'll suggest that one of the very first things to do is contact the NRA. Educate yourself on the gravity of going public in today's litigious and irresponsible environment. Proper planning is certainly the first step.

al
 
I am involved with two ranges where I am the "defacto" RM because no one else wants to do the maintenance. One range is a fish and hunt club with ~850 members. The major source of income is through gun raffle tickets, so I'm thinking if people find it harder to find a place to use these guns our source of revenue will dry up. Several years ago I convinced the club to do major improvements, i.e. 25, 50, and 200 yd backers instead of only 100 yd., higher berms, more benches , roof over benches. Well, the range use has gone up drastically....backers must be changed weekly. There is no caretaker on the property. Autos were not allowed, strictly members only, but the posts get shot-up, the steel roof gets numerous holes (oops)..... club officers are mad ....just put in 7 cctv monitors....too early to see how that works. I got approval to revise the rules to "single-shot loading only" since most of the damage was caused by pistol and AR rapid fire. The SWAT wanna-be's want to spit lead out without any regard to where the shot lands....hence posts and target frames get shot-up. Range rules are posted at benches and throughout the clubgrounds, even on the club website, and in newsletters.....apparently no-body reads them...or simply disregard. I will tell you, that unless range users behavior changes, the officers have threatened the range WILL be shut down even after spending $20,000 in improvements.
At our Hunting camp ( 20 members) , we have no problems other than people using without permission. I did have a local LEO stop in and ask if the local SWAT could use the range, I told him I would welcome them to use the range as long as a member was present (good-will - it might help prevent the local jurisdiction from trying to ban ranges of which at the time they were trying to do. ) but I would have to consult the other members. He called a few days later asking to use the range that night to try out their new night-vision equipment....I politely told him I didn't want to have the neighbors (although they are very few) subjected to arms fire of that magnitude at night. He never called back.
Since you reside on the property, that's a big plus. If you can arrange to have a RO present when range is in use that would be a bigger plus. Other that that, rules WILL be ignored. It's sad but true.
 
Last edited:
LHSmith said:
I am involved with two ranges where I am the "defacto" RM because no one else wants to do the maintenance. One range is a fish and hunt club with ~850 members. The major source of income is through gun raffle tickets, so I'm thinking if people find it harder to find a place to use these guns our source of revenue will dry up. Several years ago I convinced the club to do major improvements, i.e. 25, 50, and 200 yd backers instead of only 100 yd., higher berms, more benches , roof over benches. Well, the range use has gone up drastically....backers must be changed weekly. There is no caretaker on the property. Autos were not allowed, strictly members only, but the posts get shot-up, the steel roof gets numerous holes (oops)..... club officers are mad ....just put in 7 cctv monitors....too early to see how that works. I got approval to revise the rules to "single-shot loading only" since most of the damage was caused by pistol and AR rapid fire. The SWAT wanna-be's want to spit lead out without any regard to where the shot lands....hence posts and target frames get shot-up. Range rules are posted at benches and throughout the clubgrounds, even on the club website, and in newsletters.....apparently no-body reads them...or simply disregard. I will tell you, that unless range users behavior changes, the officers have threatened the range WILL be shut down even after spending $20,000 in improvements.
At our Hunting camp ( 20 members) , we have no problems other than people using without permission. I did have a local LEO stop in and ask if the local SWAT could use the range, I told him I would welcome them to use the range as long as a member was present (good-will - it might help prevent the local jurisdiction from trying to ban ranges of which at the time they were trying to do. ) but I would have to consult the other members. He called a few days later asking to use the range that night to try out their new night-vision equipment....I politely told him I didn't want to have the neighbors (although they are very few) subjected to arms fire of that magnitude at night. He never called back.
Since you reside on the property, that's a big plus. If you can arrange to have a RO present when range is in use that would be a bigger plus. Other that that, rules WILL be ignored. It's sad but true.
Click to expand...

I have read all posts to here. All are good points, Especially about the "swat wannabes" and "AR burners" But the one thing I have not seen is NO FMJ. By all means, no matter the format you settle on, you need to ban full metal jacket. Richocets and shots out or thru the top of the berms will be from those slugs 99.9% of the time. The rest of the prjectiles we filre are frangible and will begin to come apart as soon as they hit something. FMJ is meant to take a licking and keep on GOING. Ban FMJ for target shooting and those problems will not be yours.
 
David brings up a good point. We built 8'0 deep bunkers built from 6x6's and filled with sand with conveyor belting in the front to contain the sand. This is for 25 and 50 yd backstops. I found specs the military uses for their ranges that specify bullet penetration of various military calibers in various media including wet sand and dry. I took the 50 BMG fmj data and added a safety factor on top of that, hence the 8'0 depth. Now that I see the auto pistol and AR shooters mentality towards shooting for enjoyment, I believe quite a few shots never hit the backstop and get launched into the trees on the mountain side behind the range.
I hesitated initially to ask to ban fmj ammo,since the range rules are so restrictive now, but as someone said "all it takes is one errant bullet" and we have been confronted in the past by the state police concerning a bullet through a window. The police determined it was not possible to have originated from our club. It makes you think.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys

After hearing all this I think I will not open myself up to such a liability. I think instead of all the work and money that I might just let friends use the safe areas I have for shooting. Then with the money build a tunnel for testing equipment. I know now why ranges are dieing out and getting hard to come by. I wish we did not live in such a world but safety is really up to the shooter yet the range owner will be held responsible. If I ever buy a place in a valley that cannot have a bullet escape then I might reconsider but as for now I believe the plans are to not open a range. the $$ investment then the risk just does not make sense. Thanks again and I wish you guys luck this year in all you do.
Brandon
 
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