Shipping to an FFL has even tightened up..

[Rustystud]

The last four customers who have shipped a firearm (rifle) via UPS have had to provide a copy of my FFL to ship to my address even though I am a registerd customer of UPS as an FFL. The last several rifles I have returned to customer via UPS have required that I produce a copy of my valid FFL.

Nat Lambeth

 

[adamsgt]

Several years ago I tried to return a pistol to S&W for service and the local UPS refused to take it unless I provided them with a copy of S&W's FFL. I went as far up their chain as I could to no avail. Ended up using Fedex.

 

[williev18]

ship with the post office. Much less hassle, they wont even ask whats in the box just a replacement value.

 

[VaniB]

ship with the post office. Much less hassle, they wont even ask whats in the box just a replacement value.

You can do anything you like UNTIL YOU GET CAUGHT. Just because the Post Office clerk and his/her supervisor are ignorant to the rules (as in my experience they always are) does not mean that you can just box up anything you like, not say a word about it, and ship it off how and where you like.

I know if I am selling a handgun, it is not to be shipped through the US mail unless I am an FFL holder and I have filled out the proper form. I'm not sure how that works if I am just sending the handgun to be repaired. Rifles are allowed to be shipped from civilians to FFL holders as long as you inform the service counter clerk what is in the box and you provide him with a copy of the dealers FFL license which the Post Office must hold in its files. They also have the right to demand to open and inspect the rifle once you declare what's in the box. (thankfully that never happens.)The address on the box is also NOT suppose to give a hint that the contents are firearm related. (Ie; You should write "Jones G" on the shipping label instead of "Jones Guns") Following required procedure can keep you out of a lot of hot water in the event that something goes wrong along the way and the feds pay both you and the Post Office a visit.

 

[Jeff Walker]

VaniB's post is right in line with what I've been doing with the local post office. With the exception of handguns. I was told no handguns, period.

They have a copy of my FFL, and I have no problems getting or sending long guns.

-------Jeff

 

[Greg Walley]

The last four customers who have shipped a firearm (rifle) via UPS have had to provide a copy of my FFL to ship to my address even though I am a registerd customer of UPS as an FFL. The last several rifles I have returned to customer via UPS have required that I produce a copy of my valid FFL.

Nat Lambeth

Nat,

We quit using UPS many years ago because of excessive damaged packages. They would always argue about our insurance claims. Even when a package arrived run over by a forklift, they had the nerve to dispute the claim. Jim told them to stick it where there is no daylight. We switched to FedEx and we never have problems.

I used to work for UPS part time in the mid 1990’s when I was in college. I can assure you that the package handling at the hubs is atrocious. This wasn’t due to the employee’s carelessness or vandalism. The damage was (is) from overloading the package handling belt systems. I suspect things haven’t changed much over the years judging by the condition of packages we receive from UPS.

It was good talking with you at the Shot Show about gunsmithing and our days if misspent youth!

Greg Walley
Kelbly's Inc.

 

[vicvanb]

Fed ex shipping

For long guns, Fed Ex has consistently asked if it's a firearm and if the recipient has an FFL, but never requested a copy. Fed Ex priority overnight shipping is very costly but I have never had one lost or damaged. "Fully insured" and several "Fragile" stickers gets their attention.

 

[alf]

Rifles are allowed to be shipped from civilians to FFL holders as long as you inform the service counter clerk what is in the box and you provide him with a copy of the dealers FFL license which the Post Office must hold in its files. They also have the right to demand to open and inspect the rifle once you declare what's in the box. (thankfully that never happens.)The address on the box is also NOT suppose to give a hint that the contents are firearm related.

Not true.....

The counter clerk can only ask you if the package is fragile, liquid, perishable, or potentially hazardous, nothing more, nothing less.

You do not have to state, nor do they need, or required to know, that there's a firearm in the package. No markings of any kind on the outside of the box to indicate a firearm.

They do not need, or are required to have, an FFL on file for anyone. In fact, BATF does not want copies of FFLs in individual's hands.

Their job is to ship your package, not interpret or put their spin on BATF's rules. Make a copy of the BATF's rules on shipping and hand it to the counter clerk if they balk on shipping. Keep going up the chain of command till you find someone that knows and understands their own rules....

 

[langenc]

Lits of people like to interpet the law. Tose PO clerks are doing what they would like the law to be.

We have a county prosecutor doing the same with open carry right now.

Our last postmaster would not ship any long gun for me period.

He left after he told a customer to get the f out of the postoffice.

 

[VaniB]

Not true.....

The counter clerk can only ask you if the package is fragile, liquid, perishable, or potentially hazardous, nothing more, nothing less.

You do not have to state, nor do they need, or required to know, that there's a firearm in the package. No markings of any kind on the outside of the box to indicate a firearm.

They do not need, or are required to have, an FFL on file for anyone. In fact, BATF does not want copies of FFLs in individual's hands.

Their job is to ship your package, not interpret or put their spin on BATF's rules. Make a copy of the BATF's rules on shipping and hand it to the counter clerk if they balk on shipping. Keep going up the chain of command till you find someone that knows and understands their own rules....

It seems the confusion here is with the definition of the term "carrier".
If "carrier" includes to the US Postal service, then your declaring the firearm inside the package is required.
They can still request to inspect it, as well as to see the FFL copy.

While you may be right that my instructing the Post Office to keep a copy of the transfer dealers FFL may not be necessary, I will continue to declare what is in the box (as is detailed in the instructions below), and keep a copy of the FFL on me. This way, in case the clerk or a Supervisor has any questions, they can feel confident that they are following prescribed guidlines, and I can know I did everything necessary to keep it legal and in the open with them just in case the package is stolen.....or worse, the weapon gets used in the commission of a crime. If the Feds get to investigating it, they will especially be paying extra attention after finding out that I am not an FFL holder. My credibility certainly can't be hurt when they see I made it a point to submit a copy of the FFL to the Post Office staff.





TAKEN FROM THE GUNBROKER WEBSIGHT;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

AND FURTHER INSTRUCTION FROM THE GUNBROKER WEBSIGHT SAYS;

Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.
Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: An unlicensed person can ship a rifle or shotgun by US Mail. Unlicensed persons cannot ship a handgun by US Mail. Postal regulations allow the Post Office to open your package for inspection. Ammunition cannot be shipped by US Mail.