Sako Extractor in a Push Feed Winchester

J

Jay Cutright

New member
Somebody brought me a model 70 wanting it rebarreled in a 6br. I'm not sure the sliding plate extractor will work with the 6br, there has been a problem with sliding plate extractors and 6br's on many custom rifles and the fix has been to install a sako extractor.

I would like to hear from someone that has installed a sako extractor in a push feed Winchester before I attempt it. There's no good source for replacement bolts if this doesn't work out so I'm not up for any exploratory machine work on this job.
 
What caliber is it now? If its a std boltface theres no difference in cases and no need to try another extractor. Feeding is gonna be the problem. Gotta block off the back of the mag
 
Dusty, its a 22-250. You have seen my name on these forums enough to take for granted I knew what bolt face I'm working with.

My concern is extraction. Sliding plate extractors are known to have issues with the short cases flipping into the bolt way right where the lugs go. When this happens the ejector plunger cannot kick the empty case out. Sometimes it will kick it hard enough to spin it 180° but seldom will they get kicked all the way out like they should.
 
Oh i know jay the reason i asked is doesnt it have a mechanical ejector not a spring one? If it was a long action itll hit the back of the port when it ejects and just flip back into the action. The spring plunger type ejector actions are the problem with it falling off into the lug recess from my experience
 
I have a strong feeling that the factory extractor will work fine with the 6BR. The issue that some custom actions have is due to the shorter case rotating enough that the edge of the case head clears the recess in the front of the bolt allowing the case to "pop out" from under the extractor prematurely. I don't have one on hand right now, but I think the recess on the Win push feed is deep enough to prevent the problem. I know I would not want to do any "exploratory machining" either, so I would try to test it with the factory extractor first.
 
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Post 64 Push feed Model 70

First, I would explain the Winchester sliding extractor is much different than the Remington circular extractor. When converting a Remington the bolt nose is bored out .625" and a steel ring silver soldered in then machined for the bullet base diameter and the new extractor cut is made either for Sako style or M-16 style. One would nave to machine a plug to fill the existing floating extractor, silver solder it in and machine it flush. The bolt then could be machined for either a M-16 extractor or a Sako extractor. It might be easier and less expensive to purchase a new bolt from PT&G whit the extractor you desire.
Nat Lambeth
 
SGS said:
I have a strong feeling that the factory extractor will work fine with the 6BR. The issue that some custom actions have is due to the shorter case rotating enough that the edge of the case head clears the recess in the front of the bolt allowing the case to "pop out" from under the extractor prematurely. I don't have one on hand right now, but I think the recess on the Win push feed is deep enough to prevent the problem. I know I would not want to do any "exploratory machining" either, so I would try to test it with the factory extractor first.
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I told the guy I wasn't sure what it would take to make it work out right and he ordered the barrel with the thought in mind that if it cannot be a br he will except something else. Makes it easy for me since his other choices will clean up a br chamber I won't have to bother with chambering one of the cuttoffs laying around my saw for an experiment.

I have other things to do for now and thought a post here might turn up someone that has installed a sako in one. It would be good to know if I end up faced with the decision to do it.
 
Rustystud said:
First, I would explain the Winchester sliding extractor is much different than the Remington circular extractor. When converting a Remington the bolt nose is bored out .625" and a steel ring silver soldered in then machined for the bullet base diameter and the new extractor cut is made either for Sako style or M-16 style. One would nave to machine a plug to fill the existing floating extractor, silver solder it in and machine it flush. The bolt then could be machined for either a M-16 extractor or a Sako extractor. It might be easier and less expensive to purchase a new bolt from PT&G whit the extractor you desire.
Nat Lambeth
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Nat, PTG doesn't make a bolt for a Winchester.
 
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Jay Cutright said:
I told the guy I wasn't sure what it would take to make it work out right and he ordered the barrel with the thought in mind that if it cannot be a br he will except something else. Makes it easy for me since his other choices will clean up a br chamber I won't have to bother with chambering one of the cuttoffs laying around my saw for an experiment.

I have other things to do for now and thought a post here might turn up someone that has installed a sako in one. It would be good to know if I end up faced with the decision to do it.
Click to expand...

Although I haven't seen a model 70 with a Sako extractor, I have seen a BAT bolt that had the sliding plate extractor slot filled in with a blank and re-machined for a Sako. Just about exactly as Nat described.
 
Jay
The counter bore depth on a push feed I have here is .125". You would need a tight fit between the rim and the bolt and no chamfer on the inside edge before installing the Sako. If I was going to do all that I would bore it out just enough to fit a ring and use the sliding plate extractor. A couple cuts with a jewelers saw and touch it up with a file to fit. Install as normal. Another way would be to install the ring whole. Mill out the center area for the extractor then remove the corners of the T with jewelers files.
 
I guess it comes down to who you talk to at PTG. After reading your post I looked at the website and then called and was told they do not make a replacement bolt for a Winchester.
I didn't ask to talk to anyone specific just called and asked if a bolt was available.
Thanks Nat.
 
Shouldn't be any difference between installing a Sako style extractor in a push feed Winchester with sliding plate extractor and doing the same thing in any of the various custom coned bolts that use sliding plate extractors. The biggest thing in the Winchester is whether it uses a plunger ejector or static ejector. I've seen push feed Winchesters that were one or the other. When I was installing Sako type extractors in coned bolts, I'd plug the recess by driving in a tightly fitting plug, bore out the bolt face side of the plug and turn the outside of the plug to match the outside of the lugs, then face off the top of the plug to match the cone on the bolt nose. After the plug was cleaned up, then the extractor slot for the Sako style extractor was milled in. Use a carbide mill and drills will save you lots of problems with hardness in the bolt head that won't drill with HSS. The sole reason for using a Sako style extractor is to allow a short case like a PPC or BR to eject into the round portion of the raceway instead of the lug area. This will give reliable ejection with light spring pressure. Lug area ejection will work, but it takes stronger springing to get reliable ejection. Which isn't a good thing especially with neck turned cases.
 
I had the ejection problem in my old ('73) push-feed M70 several years ago after having it barreled in 6 Dasher. Didn't get too involved in modifying the bolt nose because I was using it as a prone rifle in NRA conventional bullseye mid- & long-range prone matches. Once I realized it wasn't going to work as a repeater anyway, I milled a single shot adaptor out of aluminum that the magazine follower would hold in place and just shot it as a single shot.

Years have passed since I last shot this rifle, and I'm now in the process of fitting it into a Manners T4-A tactical prone stock with CDI DBM bottom metal for AICS-style 308 magazines. I'd about given up on leaving it as a Dasher, and figured I'd punch it out with either a 6x47 Lapua or 6XC reamer, setting the bbl back if the XC reamer won't clean-up the Dasher chamber. But this thread gives me hope that there's a way to get around the limitations of the spring plunger ejector.

So - Jay, what did you wind up doing with your customer's M70?
 
the Dasher from mags

I did a 6mm Dasher on a SA Big Horn action for a customer. That CDI bottom metal uses AIC mags. The bottom is removable on those mags. Made a 'block' of the appropriot thickness, trimmed the spring and follower and it fed like a hot knife through butter. Didn't have any ejection problems, but the Dasher is a mite longer than the BR. Thinking about building myself a 6 Dasher on a single shot of some sort.
 
A buddy got me started on the Bighorn TL2-SAs - he was going to build a Dasher on his, but changed his mind and went with a 6XC instead. Mostly because he already has a very nice Dasher on a M700, I guess. He did the same thing you did with AICS mags & machined himself a block out of black delrin. I think his feeds pretty much flawlessly, though he does have to make sure the rounds are seated at the back of the magazine when doing a quick reload.

I built three rifles for myself on TL2-SAs - 6x47L, 6XC, & 6.5x47L. AJ Goddard had some interest in building himself a Dasher on one of this actions, and my friend sent photos & dimensions of his magazine blocks. Haven't spoken with AJ since they moved production of his actions to Nebraska - maybe he's had enough time since then to get that Dasher built?
 
flatlander said:
I had the ejection problem in my old ('73) push-feed M70 several years ago after having it barreled in 6 Dasher. Didn't get too involved in modifying the bolt nose because I was using it as a prone rifle in NRA conventional bullseye mid- & long-range prone matches. Once I realized it wasn't going to work as a repeater anyway, I milled a single shot adaptor out of aluminum that the magazine follower would hold in place and just shot it as a single shot.

Years have passed since I last shot this rifle, and I'm now in the process of fitting it into a Manners T4-A tactical prone stock with CDI DBM bottom metal for AICS-style 308 magazines. I'd about given up on leaving it as a Dasher, and figured I'd punch it out with either a 6x47 Lapua or 6XC reamer, setting the bbl back if the XC reamer won't clean-up the Dasher chamber. But this thread gives me hope that there's a way to get around the limitations of the spring plunger ejector.

So - Jay, what did you wind up doing with your customer's M70?
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I chambered that barrel and it feeds and ejects like it was made to be a 6mm BR.
The rounds I used to function test it were loaded with 105 gr bullets. After seeing how well it worked I started thinking about future projects in 22BR and 20BR on cheap readily available puss feed Winchesters.
I loaded up some dummy rounds with 6mm 55 gr Ballistic Tips and they fed just as well as the long bullets.
I even dragged out a few old long action rifles in 30-06, 243 Win and 225 Win and cycled through the action and all fed fine. I don't know why I didn't do that to begin with???
The only way I can have a problem with ejection is if I fire a round and pull the bolt back slower than anyone would ever want to wich will allow the case to slip off the extractor and not eject. It's a situation where it will only be a problem if I purposely make it malfunction.
 
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shortgrass said:
I did a 6mm Dasher on a SA Big Horn action for a customer. That CDI bottom metal uses AIC mags. The bottom is removable on those mags. Made a 'block' of the appropriot thickness, trimmed the spring and follower and it fed like a hot knife through butter. Didn't have any ejection problems, but the Dasher is a mite longer than the BR. Thinking about building myself a 6 Dasher on a single shot of some sort.
Click to expand...
I built myself a Dasher out of a FN SPR (Controlled Feed) Winchester detachable magazine, it works fine after a slight modification of the magazine. I don't know what will happen if I try that cartridge in a push feed, I will probably find out some day.
 
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