Ruger 77mkII, 22PPC Desirable?

S

Steelringer

Guest
Howdy,
Was looking at a Rugert 77MkII in 22PPC. I understand they and the 6PPC were only made in low quantities and for a short time. Is the rifle desirable to own from a shooter perspective as well as having any collector status? I am familiar w. the Sakos in both PPC's, but not sure how well the Ruger performed in this caliber. Looking for a paper puncher that is sufficiently accurate, but not a full blown benchgun. Thanks.
 
Steelringer: Yes the Ruger 77 V/T (MarkII?) in 22 PPC does have an enhanced value over the same year Rifle in the various "common" calibers!
The 77 V/T in 22 PPC and 6mm PPC are VERY rare!
By coincidence I just bought a new in the box Ruger 77 V/T in 22 PPC last month. I have been looking for one for many years!
But, I have been so busy archery Elk Hunting, Elk scouting, Antelope Hunting, Goose Hunting and now Deer and Elk Rifle Hunting that I have not been able to get this 22 PPC on line and firing as yet!
But I do have two friends whom I trust implicitly that own this same rare Rifle and they both rave about its accuracy.
I can't wait to shoot mine.
I have a scope for it (Leupold 6.5x20 30mm variable) and I have a Deluxe set (3 dies) of Redding reloading dies for it along with some brand new 22 PPC headstamped brass and a plethora of high quality 22 caliber bullets including Bartes, Bergers, Sierras, Haydons and a few of the old Remington BR bullets of great renown.
It will be at least 1 1/2 months though until I can get it to my friends private and wind proof range for a shakedown run.
So I can't personally give you a firsthand "shooters perspective" report til then.
If you don't mind my asking do you have a 77 in 22 PPC that is interesting you that is for sale or does a friend have one and you are thinking of making an offer on it?
I must say that I RUSHED to get the money out of my pocket for this NIB Ruger 77 V/T in 22 PPC as it came with a brand new set (receipt showed a cost of $122.00 for the Redding Deluxe die set) of quality dies and 30 pieces of new 22 PPC brass - it cost me $600.00 (IIRC).
Again I was thrilled to pay that amount for that NIB Rifle and the accompanying gear that came with it!
Wish I could be of more help to ye!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
22ppc Ruger

Varmintguy: I came across this one for sale for C$900 incl. Redding std die set, Lee dies, and brass. Rifle supposedly has less than 100rds thru it. Looking at it long distance. I was about to acquire a Sako Varmint/BR A-series single shot in 6ppc with spare Sako ss bbl ( found that to be interesting; rare?) Hornady dies , brass for C$1100...maybe $1K. I recalled Ruger having limited production of the two ppc calibers, so became intrigued by the rifle, but other than that do not know that much about them. I had a VT in 22/250 years ago when they first came out. Bought one after reading an article in Shooting Times. Sold it, had one in 223 a couple of years ago, now found thios one. But the 22ppc is really teasing me. So its the Sako or the Ruger!:rolleyes: And I need another Cooper too! ;)

Man, I've got to travel to Montana. Sounds like the hunting is great. Not to mention the array of fine rifle makers too.....Sharps, Cooper! Would like to do a factory tour of each.

Thanks for your time. Will keep you posted if I get the Ruger and the range report.
S
 
Steelringer: I have toured both plants in the tiny town of Big Timber, Montana where they make (made?) the beautiful Sharps re-production Rifles!
Fascinating!
But I think only one plant (company?) survives there nowadays.
And I have toured the formerly in good graces "Cooper" plant in Stevensville, Montana!
Yep lots of Hunting and Varminting in Montana for sure!
I own one of the Sako single shot heavy barrel Varmint/target Rifles in 6mm PPC!
It IS scarey accurrate!
I bought this Rifle a few years back from an estate settlement auction and the Rifle was new un-fired.
With 24 power Leupold scope and Euber 68 grain custom bullets and Vihta Vuori Oy N133 powder the last two groups (5 shots at 100 yards) I made with this Rifle measured .226" and .212" respectively!
I consider this level of accuracy to be unnecessary to even try to improve on!
I have a number of friends with the Sako single shot 6mm PPC's and they are as impressed with their factory Rifles accurracy as am I!
As a Canadian you may not have the "concerns" that virtually ALL Americans have over this recent "turn of events" regarding the Cooper Arms Company.
So be that - but suffice it to say IF you are interested in another Cooper, I would make your play sooner rather than later!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
ruger22ppc

saw one at a gun show a few years back nib and think it had 15 or 20 boxes of factory ammo 6 or 7 hundred dollars ? was not a rifle loonie then seemed awfuf cheap to me knowing that the shells were pretty high then well you live and learn
 
Ruger 22ppc

Hey Varmintguy; you've done well with some nice gear. :)
Next year I'm going out west to Alberta, so should swing south to Montana for a tour. And the Cooper plant would be a destination. I've been following the news on Cooper lately; hope all works out in the end. Seems what happens south of us has an effect on us too. The craftsmen (and ladies) at that plant produce nice riggin'. I am fortunate to own two Coopers. Maybe I'd better tag the one I've been eyeing soon. At least it is on this side of the border!

Fine Sako 6ppc you have; excellent shooter. I've got a Sako single shot 22/250 in blue/ss. Supposedly only a few arrived here from overseas I was told, a decade ago. Got it from the original owner. I've gotten 1/2" groups so far. Hoping to improve on that; all I need is time, LOL. Nice looking rifle too.

The 22ppc Ruger is still available. Looked around trying to find how many made, but couldn't find anything on the 'net.:( Maybe someone else has some stats. A new 77MkII goes for around C$800; maybe I can make a deal on it for same amount. At least it is a one owner rifle and low miles.

Steelringer
 
Steelringer: Gas prices are sure dropping here in Montana and I hope they stay low for your trip next year.
I did not know that Sako made 22-250's in their single shot Varminter!
Good for you on that one.
I have also tried to find out how many of the Rifles in 22 PPC and 6mm PPC Ruger produced before the civil lawsuit put an end to the manufacture of the PPC cartridges.
I have had no luck in even getting a ball park figure for their production numbers.
The Ruger Company also made the 22 PPC and 6mm PPC's in their Ruger #1 Model - but again that production was VERY shortlived pending the lawsuit.
Best of luck in your dealing and that would be a good selling point for your side - the cost of a new 77 V/T!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
Ruger 22 ppc

Steelringer: One of the few threads I've seen on the mdl 77 Varmint 11 in 22ppc. I posted a msg. on another site several months ago after coming across one at an estate sale. No response. Made an offer after bore-scoping the barrel ( never been fired verified), and picked it up for less than Blue Book price of $585. Factory 5.5# trigger has been replaced with a self-installed Rifle Basix at 1.5#. Serial# 781-806xx. Has a tight, no turn neck at .253", and a relatively short throat. Factory barrel was already free-floated, 26" length. I understand Ruger was using Wilson and Douglas barrels at that time ( mid 1990s), but whichever, mine had been hand-lapped: no reamer or tool marks anywhere. The Ruger rings have always gotten a bad rap, but I checked them before mounting the scope, and lapping was not required. Mounted the scope & no ring markings anywhere. 25.5 of H322 w/ 53 gr. Hornady #2250 seated to touch is producing consistant 1/2 moa w/ 5 shots at 200 yd. Chronographed velocity with that load is averaging 3230 fps. if you've not already seen it, "Bolt Action Rifles", by Frank de Haas has a chapter devoted to the 22ppc beginning on page 367: a lot of good info.
 
Ruger 22ppc

Varmintguy: Well, the gas is now selling around C$1 here, so allowing for 20% larger gallon and same % for exchange, that's US$4.50 per us gallon. Will see how it looks next summer! At least that's some consolation Vs the drop in the stock market.:(
Re the Sako single shot Varmint rifle; I was told there were only four into Canada fr. Sako at that time; 2-22/250's and 2-308's. This one was the first I had actually come across. Kind of neat to own.
Thanks for trying w. the production no.s Maybe someone else will chime in later.

fd Shuster: Thanks for the load data. Will file that. :D
Good deal on your Ruger. The one I am looking at was made in 1993 so it might be a Wilson or Douglas bbl too. :D Hope that is true.
Any markings on the bbl to indicate that? Thanks again for your help.

Steelringer
 
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Ruger 22ppc, part 2

Steelringer: No barrel maker ident on barrel. Usual Ruger info with "22ppc" in front of the receiver, left side. Has a very nice 2.4" wide flat forend that rides the front bag, similar to my bench rifles. All in all one of my favorites. Really a shame I believed all the bad-mouthing I've been told about the model 77: this one is a really fine well made rifle:can't find any reason to not like it.
 
F.d. shuster: I have practically re-read my whole book "Bolt Action Rifles" (Revised Edition) by Frank de Haas and no info on the 22 PPC that I can find especially on page 367 and around there.
Could I trouble you to look at the edition or printed date and relay that to me.
Maybe there is a revised - revised edition that i don't have.
My copy says 1984 and I think that is to early for the Ruger 77 V/T model in 22 PPC and 6mm PPC.
November 2nd and its raining here in Montana at 5,400'!
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
22ppc

Varmintguy,
Looks like the deal is coming together. :D I think I have it for $800 delivered incl. dies, 100Lapua brass and the original Ruger box. I think it is a fair deal for buyer and seller. Can't wait to try out Shuster's load. Will have to steal a scope off one of my other rifles to do that. :rolleyes:
At least it is not snowing in Montana yet! :eek: I thought you already had some a week ago. It won't be long before we get some in the 'snow belt' here. Hope it holds off another month
Will let you know how the ppc shoots.
Thanks for all the feedback, guys. :)

Steelringer
 
Ruger 22ppc

VarmintGuy: PPC info is included in the "expanded 3rd edition". Quote from Frank de Haas at the beginning of the Ruger Model 77 Mark II chapter: "Early in 1994, I received word from DBI, the publisher, that they had decided to do a new edition of this book. Ten years had passed since the revised edition was published in 1984. In the interim, Ruger introduced their M77 Mark II". Much of his information is taken from the 1994 Ruger catalog. Temp. here in SW PA is forecast to be in the high 60s for the upcoming week, so the Ruger 22ppc will be one of the ones I'll be working with. Have not fired it in a while, so it's like renewing an old friendship.:cool:
 
Ruger 22ppc

Steelringer: Got out yesterday & did more "work" with the Ruger. Compared the before-mentioned load with the same load, using a 48 gr. HP match bullet, made by Watson, ( got them at the same estate sale as the rifle). The groups were little smaller with the 48 gr. compared to the 53 gr. The barrel is a 14 twist, and I know from other 14 twists, ( 222 & 22-250), as I approach 53 to 55 gr. bullet weights/lengths, groups will start to open, so I think at that point you are "borderline". You may want to try 50 gr. and less for load development, ( Berger?). So far, all bullets tried prefer touching-- no "jump", and the barrel shoots tighter groups when it's dirty. Have fired 50 rds. w/o cleaning & groups get smaller as barrel fouls: go figure: just what I've been learning about mine.
 
F d shuster: Thanks for the clarification on the edition number - I am one edition behind it seems.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
I am gearing up the 22 PPC and of all things I have had a terribly tough time finding MTM Cartridge Cases Holders that would hold my 22 PPC cartridge cases, without them dumping themselves all over inside the "box" when the box is tilted.
The MTM folks make a cartridge holder specifically for the 22 PPC and the 6mm PPC but try to find one in a store! I gave up on that one.
I finally found some cartridge holders made by the J&J Products Company that are marked as Model 5H-50.
I do not know what these cartridge holders are specifically made for (as there is no information on the J&J boxes other than the model number - 5H-50). But they sure hold the 22 PPC cases perfectly and they can't spill out of their individual holes! And the J&J 5H-50's hold 50 cartridges each.
Info provided just in case some one else starts searching for a cartridge holder for their PPC ammo.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
I've been reading this thread with some interest. I purchased a Ruger .22PPC while they were being made and although it shot rather well, I ended up being very disappointed with it. You probably all know what a pita it is to form cases.. I went through that in spades. Would definitely recommend against it (use the 22 PPC USA cases if any are available) particularly if you'd rather shoot than reload, spend time fireforming, and generally tearing your hair out.

Next, considering case capacity and all that, remember that this round won't really do anything that a good .223 or .222 Magnum won't do. The round's biggest failing (OK, ignore this if you're a pure benchrester, are used to such things, or are just determined to press on anyway...) is the short, fat case and 30 degree shoulder. With these, as the case stretches and gets tight in the chamber, it's really impossible to move the shoulder back to achieve a small headspace clearance for good function.. Yes, I know folks use "bump" dies and all that and "think" they're doing this, but for the most part all they're doing is collapsing the case walls, which spring right back as soon as the round's fired. The smaller diameter .223 series rounds do allow for actually setting the shoulder back, but with the PPC's this is mostly an illusion imho.

This leads to my third point, the rifle itself. The Ruger folks used a stainless receiver and a stainless bolt. Apparently neither is particular hard or gall- resistant. When my rifle "locked up" a few times due to the case problem above, the lugs and lug seat galled horribly... even though lightly lubed as I recall. Someday I really do need to take the barrel off, refinish the lugs and seat, take it up one thread and rechamber.

I'd gladly sell the gun, but I wouldn't want to put it into someone's hands with about .006" excess headspace and galled lugs. It works "sort of" ok if I keep a coat of never-seez on things. Accuracy wasn't bad, maybe on the order of .5" or slightly better, but then a lot of rifles will do this. Nothing to write home about.

I look on this whole thing as a "learning experience", but one that I'd rather not have again. And I realize that many won't share these opinions, are much more forgiving of the PPC cartridges than I am, and so forth. But if I were looking to do anything besides just play with the particular rifle and cartridge, I'd look for a .223, etc. on something other than the Ruger action....
 
Crow99: I appreciate your comments and relaying your experiences with your Ruger 77 V/T in caliber 22 PPC!
I have a BUNCH of 223 Varmint guns these days - 10 (ten) of them in fact.
Mainly, I, just want to try a new factory/hybrid Rifle in a caliber (22 PPC) that I have not owned or shot before!
I have a new to me Ruger 77 V/T in caliber 223 Remington in fact - and its best grouping do date has been a .473" (5 shots at 100 yards). And I have another 77 V/T in caliber 204 Ruger thats best group to date was a .374" but its normal grouping (5 shots at 100 yards) is in the 5's and low 6's!
I use the above Rifles for Varminting and those levels of accuracy suit me fine!
I do hope the 77 V/T in caliber 22 PPC will shoot as well or better than my other 77's.
I am printing out your posting for future reference should similar troubles afflict me!
I am not sure if the PPC family of cartridges needs much "forgiveness", like you suggest, especially when it comes to accuracy.
I have read enough about both the PPC's accuracy performance in tunnels and warehouses to KNOW they are champions when it comes to the ultimate in accuracy.
And, I have NO illusions about the Ruger 77 action and barrel "maxing out" the accuracy potential of the 22 PPC cartridge itself.
And, yep, its a lot of trouble for me to go through for a round that will only best the 223 Remington by 100 to 150 F.P.S. (with the 52 grain bullets I intend on shooting in my 22 PPC).
BUT, I am a gun nut and I need a new project from time to time.
Again I very much appreciate your experiences, opinions and perspective!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
Varmintguy: Well, good luck with the project then. Yes I kow the PPC has "the" reputation for accuracy, but there are other contenders today too... the 6BR seems to be developing a following. And the .222 will still shoot awfully well... And for various reasons, although I had a "Ruger Period" some years ago, I really don't have much confidence in them anymore. The PPC and the crummy stainless action was a big part of the turnoff...

I myself don't shoot benchrest, nor do I do any smithing for benchresters. There's no BR activity in my area. Now varmint HUNTING.. that's another story. I've had a 40 year love affair with varmint calibers of all sorts, from the .22 Hornet up to about the 6mm Ackley and at one time the .25-06. An old and sentimental favorite is the .222 Rem Mag. I'd ten times rather have one of those than the PPC. This winter, I'm going to build a .22-204, which imho is what the .222 Mag should have been, and would have been if Remington came up with it today. But that'll be another story... Powder capacity is about 1.5 gr. more than the .223 Ackley... :)

I've gone the route with finicky and anal loading techniques, turned, weighed, and indicated brass, and all that. I've swaged bullets (now that did improve performance.. even if it was too time consuming..) and even "designed" a couple of cartridges (that you'll never see on the market or in the gun mags....) and have come to the conclusion that the "kiss" principle works best for me. A good barrel, some proper action work, and a really good job of putting everything together in a standard caliber beats neck turning, case forming, and all that stuff that keeps "gun nuts" happily posting on forums like this just about every time.. Of course I don't shoot .1" groups either, but groups in the high .2's and .3's from time to time seem to keep me happy enough. And i don't turn my nose up at a gun that will do .5" either.

But I can appreciate your desire to "experience" the Ruger PPC too. As you might conclude from the .22-204 comment, I haven't "lost the lust" for something different myself. Let us know how it goes for you.
 
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