Remington 700 5R

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ehparis

Guest
I've recently gotten back into shooting again and have purchased (Remington custom shop) a Remington 700 5R (5R barrel, 1-9, 24 inch, .223) that I'm looking forward to working up some loads in. This rifle is only available in .223, .308, and 300 mag) and is considered a "tactical" rifle. It does have pillar bedding. With the fast twist I'll be shooting some of the heavier bullets. I've already heard some suggestions that the Berger .224 80gr. VLD will work well in this twist.

Have been buying the necessary loading gear as I sold all I owned (and quit NBRSA bench shooting) in 1995. Sinclair International seems to carry a full line of Berger bullets and I naturally ordered some to shoot in the .223. I realize the .223 isn't the most accurate case for accuracy shooting. I've fired it only on a limited basis with a couple of boxes of factory ammo featuring 77 gr. Sierra bullets. Am really looking forward to working with the Berger bullets. I'm guessing from experience with the factory ammo that it's about a .5 MOA rifle as several groups with the factory ammo ran that size. With the Bergers (or perhaps loads with Sierras) I'm hoping to eliminate flyers from the factory ammo.

Am presently reading up on potential powders for use with the .223 in the Speer and Sierra manuals. Any suggestions along the line of powders to use would be appreciated. I'm guessing the best ones will be a bit slower powder than the .222 with which I have a lot of experience from shooting benchrest in the 1980's. I haven't owned a rifle since 1995 so am far behind the curve in knowing about present powders. It strikes me that 4895 might be a good choice as it was always just a wee bit slow for the .222. Any thoughts you have will be appreciated.
 
The most popular powders for heavier bullets in the .223 are H4895, Varget, and Reloder 15. Slower powders take up too much room in the case with boattail bullets, and faster powders tend to build pressures too fast for the velocity that's obtained. VV N140 would likely work well too, but since it costs something like 50% more than the others for no advantage in accuracy or velocity I don't see much point in trying it.

You're not likely to get benchrest accuracy with a .223, but a good .223 should easily produce sub half MOA groups with good bullets and shooting. Today I shot a mid 5 and a mid 6 group from a factory AR using a 3-12 Nikon scope with 75 gr Hornady HPBT's and RL-15 in LC cases with no wind flags. Someone who could see would likely have done better.
 
like the man said a factory rifle is only gonna be just so good. the heavy bullets are typically used for long range...what do you intend to do with this rifle ?
before one goes too far, you need to make some decisions. is this just a plinking rifle ?? go with 55's..68/69..75 gr bullets...no need to burn out the bbl shooting 80's at short range.
2520 works well...4895 works well but is a pain to weigh and load in that little neck.

so tell us what your intentions are, and then we can be more specific in our help.
( i have a custom built, 223 ar15 with a 1/14 hart bbl that i shoot with a 36x scope....53/52's at 3500/3600 fps....ags around .2....which means it has shot under .2)

mike in co
 
ehparis said:
I've recently gotten back into shooting again and have purchased (Remington custom shop) a Remington 700 5R (5R barrel, 1-9, 24 inch, .223) that I'm looking forward to working up some loads in. This rifle is only available in .223, .308, and 300 mag) and is considered a "tactical" rifle. It does have pillar bedding. With the fast twist I'll be shooting some of the heavier bullets. I've already heard some suggestions that the Berger .224 80gr. VLD will work well in this twist.
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If the twist really is 1/9" I doubt the 80gr will stabilize for you especially VDL designs. I`ve had two 223`s with 1/9" bores and they seemed to top out with bullets the length of the 69gr MK. I actually had the best luck at shorter (200 or less) ranges with the 52/53gr or less offerings. You can get enough velocity from these to make up for any BC advantage the heavier bullets offer to an awful long way out..
 
What Joe says is true. You'll likely need a 7" twist to reliably stabilize 80 gr bullets SMK's. I've got a 9" twist .223 that shoots 75's reasonably well, but not great. The 8" twist shoots 75's very well, and I haven't tried anything longer (any of the 80's or VLD's) so can't speak to that. It should shoot 77's (Sierra and Nosler) well too since they're no longer than the 75 Hornady. The VLD's from Berger and maybe others that are longer than the 75 gr Hornady or 77 gr Sierra or Nosler may not stabilize in a 9" twist.

One thing to note is that although you can push the velocity/pressure in a bolt rifle you're not likely to be able to move any of the heavy bullets faster enough to get them to stabilize if they're on the raggedy edge. Bullets down to 50/53 gr should work well, but if you plan on varmint shooting with the rifle I'd stick with the lighter bullets to reduce ricochets.

I can get ~3400 fps with 50-53 gr bullets in my .223 bolt rifle, and am hard pressed to get more than about 2750 fps with 75's (14" twist with light bullets, 9" twist for 75's). That means that unless you're shooting past 350 yards the heavier bullets aren't going to be of any benefit in flatter trajectory.
 
the cmp/dcm guys shooting 223's are typically shooting a 1/8 or a 1/7 twist bbl to shoot 80's at 600 yds at 1 moa( 2 moa is all that is required, but some tend to replace bbls when they pass the 1 moa point).
they shoot anything from 52's at 100 to 68/69 at 300 and 75/80's at 600...

mike in co
 
My Rem. 12twist .223 shoots 55gr. Burgers in Lapua cases with 25.5 gr. of H335 good for me.
 
I bought this 5R just to have something to fiddle around with. I do have concerns about the 80 gr. Berger VLD but haven't had a chance to use them yet. The weather hasn't been that great (warm enough but lots of wind) so haven't tried any of the Bergers yet. I have them in 64, 68, 70, and 80 gr. weights. Have mostly been shooting Sierra 77 gr. match kings to date. Also have some 69 gr. Sierras so have lots to experiment with. The powders I've bought are Varget, H4895, and 8208 XBR. I think I'll try some Reloader 15 if I can find it per the suggestion in this thread. What little loading I've done has been with CCI Benchrest primers and I need to find some Federals. My thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I'm hoping that proper tweaking will find something that aggs. .5 inches.

The 77gr SMK seem to stabilize in the 1-9 twist but have shot them only at 100 yards. When I get a day with some decent wind I plan to shoot them at 300 yards and see if they remain stable. I've been amazed to find that factory ammo (bought some just for the heck of it) shoots well with 69 and 77 gr. SMKs. This is Finocci and Federal ammo. It seems to agg. around one inch which I find amazing for factory ammo.
 
Joe S said:
If the twist really is 1/9" I doubt the 80gr will stabilize for you especially VDL designs. I`ve had two 223`s with 1/9" bores and they seemed to top out with bullets the length of the 69gr MK. I actually had the best luck at shorter (200 or less) ranges with the 52/53gr or less offerings. You can get enough velocity from these to make up for any BC advantage the heavier bullets offer to an awful long way out..
Click to expand...

The 5R model 700 I have is a special model. The barrel with its 1-9 twist is supposed to be the same as Remington's match rifles. It does have pillar bedding and has been surprising me with factory ammo. I've been shooting (factory) 69 and 77 SMK and both seem to shoot well but conditions haven't been the best. I naturally don't expect factory ammo to do much better than 1 inch although I do have one agg. (4 groups) in the .8s with Federal 77 gr. SMK. Occasionally the factory ammo will produce a .5 or .6 group but inch to 1.25 are the rule.
 
To follow up on my original message. I've installed a Timney trigger and set it to about 2 lbs. and that definitely helps group size as compared to the mushy Remington trigger. Keep in mind the fact that this Remington 700 BR has a 1 in 9 twist.

So far the bullets that have proven best are the Berger VLD 70, Sierra 69, and Nosler 69 with Valmet powder. Joe S. is right when he says the 80 gr. Berger VLD won't stabilize. The groups with it are nearly 2 inches on average. The 77 gr. Sierra performs a bit better but nowhere near the performance of the 69-70 gr. bullets. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. Am now searching for some Reloader 15 powder to try. Valmet and H4895 have been the best powders with no indication of preference with the few groups shot to date between the CCI benchest primer and Fed 205. Am primarily using the same lot of Lapua brass which seems to be a good one based on my measurements.
 
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