rem 700

I have a custom action with a floating bolt head. While the lug contact is excellent, having them in full contact as you cycle the bolt, with striker spring tension on the bolt creates more friction, and makes the bolt operating effort higher. I notice that on the latest production the bolt heads come with DLC which I assume is to address this issue. With a normal bolt, as soon as the cocking piece engages the trigger the back of the bolt comes up with the result that only the bottom of the bottom lug actually makes contact. Certainly, with close clearances, as the rifle is fired this changes. After firing the spring pressure is no longer there, which is reflected in the level of drag.
 
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Boyd Allen said:
I have a custom action with a floating bolt head. While the lug contact is excellent, having them in full contact as you cycle the bolt, with striker spring tension on the bolt creates more friction, and makes the bolt operating effort higher. I notice that on the latest production the bolt heads come with DLC which I assume is to address this issue. With a normal bolt, as soon as the cocking piece engages the trigger the back of the bolt comes up with the result that only the bottom of the bottom lug actually makes contact. Certainly, with close clearances, as the rifle is fired this changes. After firing the spring pressure is no longer there, which is reflected in the level of drag.
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Sir, thanks for your insightful comments. A question; what is DLC?
 
Boyd Allen said:
A few years back against a field entirely populated by custom actioned rifles, except for his, Bob Brackney won the California State Championship which is a four gun match, shooting nothing but actions that he had blueprinted and sleeved, including unlimited. Randy, perhaps you should consider the facts before contradicting someone. Certainly axial contact is bad but that is not how his touch. The competitors in that match included Hall of Fame members and world record holders.
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Boyd, re-read my post and show me where I contradicted anyone!

I merely expressed my DOUBT.

Don't presume that my faceceous tag-line expresses any contradictory nature - I am a very successful proponent to doing stuff, "that'll never work", and of encouraging other to do the same . . . ;) RG
 
R.G. Robinett said:
Boyd, re-read my post and show me where I contradicted anyone!

I merely expressed my DOUBT.

Don't presume that my faceceous tag-line expresses any contradictory nature - I am a very successful proponent to doing stuff, "that'll never work", and of encouraging other to do the same . . . ;) RG
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did you see the pile of barrels of buckys tough to compete aganist money or gifts fetting like nascar hard to bring new people.
 
When he was working with bolt sleeving on the 700's, Stan Ware did up a very unique 700 action that broke a few of the rules.

The front receiver ring is machined and tapped at 12:00 directly over the upper locking lug. It's fitted with a 32 tpi Allen-headed screw with a Nylon pad at the tip that contacts the lug. The back end of the bolt is fitted with a sleeve for a very close fit. With the bolt closed, the front of the bolt is positioned via the screw from the top side of the receiver ring to perfectly center the bolt nose in the barrel counter bore. In use, the Nylon tip bears directly on the radial aspect of the lug. The leading edge of the lug is radiused for a smooth transition to the Nylon tip as the bolt is closed.

The only real accomodation that needed to be made was with the front scope base. The adjusting screw is just forward of the rear base screw so the Kelbly/Davidson base has a hole in it for the screw.

With a 13 twist Lilja 3 groove barrel and chambered with his .265 neck 6BR reamer throated for the .825 jacket length 65-68 gr. bullets, it shot every bit as well as you would have expected a custom actioned rig to. The tip being in contact with the lug didn't seem to be an issue. I have my own thoughts as to why but that's neither here nor there. I contributed a extra McMillan EDGE stock for the project, did the pillar bedding job as well as doing a fair amount of the testing with the gun.

That's my 2 cents worth. You'll need three cents more for a cup of coffee at Al's Oasis and a couple bucks more to hand over to the barista at Starbucks. ;)

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Boyd Allen said:
I have a custom action with a floating bolt head. While the lug contact is excellent, having them in full contact as you cycle the bolt, with striker spring tension on the bolt creates more friction, and makes the bolt operating effort higher. I notice that on the latest production the bolt heads come with DLC which I assume is to address this issue. With a normal bolt, as soon as the cocking piece engages the trigger the back of the bolt comes up with the result that only the bottom of the bottom lug actually makes contact. Certainly, with close clearances, as the rifle is fired this changes. After firing the spring pressure is no longer there, which is reflected in the level of drag.
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Sir, again, thanks for your comments. Some confusion; I can see more friction with the floating head full contact lugs (over fixed bolt head) only while the lugs are being engaged as the bolt handle is being lowered. This would not change the feel of opening the bolt or moving the bolt back and forward, correct?
 
I've read this through a couple more times

The plus I can see is fitting the bolt tighter. The front of the bolt, .007" isn't exactly close tolerances. .007" is pretty loose. With regard to the bolt slamming: anyone who has ever looked one of these over would realizes when the firing mechanism is holding the bolt lugs to the lugs in the action and more then likely folks are jamming their bullets to some amount, lugs ain't a gonna go anywhere. I've seen a pretty good number of 700's over the years that shot and shoot right with customs. I'd guess all of them have been trued up, to some degree. I currently am shooting two off and on that will shoot with any of the customs. More often than not, I am the weak link. Both of the 700's I have, have had the front trued up but that's it. Both bolts are as they came from the factory size wise. I'll go back to what my first reply said, It's what's out in front of the bolt face that more often than not determines if a rifle is capable of winning. Years ago, an old gunsmith said to me, in a conversation about this issue, " when a gate is closed, it's closed", meaning that it was what was out front of the gate that mattered. With all of the rifles I have owned over the years, only one I owned briefly would throw flyers. It was a new build and the owner was so disgusted with it he sold it to me for less than half what he had in it. Determined that I could make it shoot, I bought it. After a lot of work and effort I couldn't stop the flyers either. I didn't change barrels but sold it to an F class shooter who loved it and thanked me for selling it to him. The flyers weren't that bad and may not have been noticed by the F class guy but he never complained about it. The flyers weren't huge but would be out of the ten ring. It doesn't hurt one thing to tighten up a bolt and don't they feel nice once it's done but from my experience, I don't think it adds much to accuracy.

Pete
 
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BillBrawand said:
did you see the pile of barrels of buckys tough to compete aganist money or gifts fetting like nascar hard to bring new people.
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was at south creek 50 yrs ago a great shooter and gun smith tpld me he chambered a 308 after turning a taper on l v sorted his bullets when got to the match he found he brought wrong box of bullets when he got back home he also saw he hambered with steady rest off center and beat the hell out everyone.
 
gwahir said:
Sir, again, thanks for your comments. Some confusion; I can see more friction with the floating head full contact lugs (over fixed bolt head) only while the lugs are being engaged as the bolt handle is being lowered. This would not change the feel of opening the bolt or moving the bolt back and forward, correct?
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The assumption being that the fixed head is in perfect contact after firing, which, even with a custom action may not be the case. Yes, it would make no difference going forward and back but that is hardly ever an issue. In any case, I have both fixed and separate heads in custom actions and the difference that I mentioned is there. I should also say that some types of shooting do no involve running groups from a bag rest. For these bolt lift is not the issue that it is when running a group in group benchrest.
 
Somewhere I saved Brackney’s process that Boyd describes. I believe it was Brackney’s own words on the method. Didn’t he at one time way way back actually post for a short while here in BRC? Seems he did. He mailed me some Remington small parts for free at one time when they were out of stock long ago and it must have been from contact here.

On another note on the same subject: Bill Leeper (he was the proponent of the dovetailed sight base in the bolt instead of full bushings) at some point instead of fitting the radial clearance in the bolt nose to tenon close as Brackney did Leeper at some point switched it up and used a Teflon O-ring in a groove in the counterbore in the tenon that the bolt nose had a snug radial fit into. He used the dovetailed sight base at the rear and the O-ring up front. I shamelessly ripped that off this forum (Leeper was very generous and actually gave it to us) and have done several with no negatives. If anyone is interested I can go to the shop and get the o ring size for you if you’d like to try it out. If you are careful you can do it where if you don’t like the O-ring you can pull it and still have normal bolt to tenon clearance. I’d bet you can search and find it on the forum. If I get some time later I may search for it.

And here you have it. Seems old discussions are new again: http://benchrest.com/archive/index.php/t-53384.html
 
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WSnyder said:
...........

And here you have it. Seems old discussions are new again: ...........[/url]
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The misunderstood and much maligned Bill Calfee also used to post here..... and he flatout LOVES this subject :)

Anyone else read his 'Just Relax' series with pleasure?? Full contact on ignition, 90* engagements, timing VS fitment..... I so enjoy a man taking the time to understand "why" or at least making the attempt, whether I agree with his findings or not is completely irrelevant ("stopped muzzles")
 
WSnyder said:
On another note on the same subject: Bill Leeper (he was the proponent of the dovetailed sight base in the bolt instead of full bushings) at some point instead of fitting the radial clearance in the bolt nose to tenon close as Brackney did Leeper at some point switched it up and used a Teflon O-ring in a groove in the counterbore in the tenon that the bolt nose had a snug radial fit into. He used the dovetailed sight base at the rear and the O-ring up front. I shamelessly ripped that off this forum (Leeper was very generous and actually gave it to us) and have done several with no negatives. If anyone is interested I can go to the shop and get the o ring size for you if you’d like to try it out. If you are careful you can do it where if you don’t like the O-ring you can pull it and still have normal bolt to tenon clearance. I’d bet you can search and find it on the forum. If I get some time later I may search for it.

And here you have it. Seems old discussions are new again: http://benchrest.com/archive/index.php/t-53384.html
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I'd be interested in the 'o' ring size. Thanks for posting this.......there has been a lot of good discussion over the years on this forum, for sure. :cool:

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Here you go: 017 O-ring PTFE. I used 55D durometer. You can get a softer Durometer. I toyed with the idea of using PTFE encapsulated type O-rings that have a 55D Durometer casing and a softer core but never got around to it. The encapsulated soft core might make initial fitting easier. Keep in mind this will not work with extractors that sit proud of the bolt nose and need operating room over bolt nose diameter like the M-16 type.
 

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