Powderscales on Benchrest range?

B

Bullen

Guest
Hi.
I've tried to throw VV133 in my Harrells Premium BR Measure
with different techniques this year but I'm not satisfied with the results.
Sometime I got difference around 0,3 grains.
What's your opinion about that? Is it important for accuracy (0,3 grain)

I dont know if you use powderscales (Battery) on Benchrest range when loading your ammo?
If you are...I'm curious what you recommend?
Need at least an accurate of 0,1 grain.

I use my RCBS Chargemaster combo home when loading to my 6mmXC and some hunting ammo.
That gives me accurate loads, why not have similar-accurate loads for 6PPC ;) too.

Anyone recommend the RCBS 750 RangeMaster?

Grateful for advice
 
Chargemasters are becoming more common at the range. All you need is some kind of a battery pack. There has been some forum discussion of this. You might want to do as search or two. BC (before Chargemaster) I designed this, and Ed Hellam was kind enough to build it. The first cover was plastic, but it had static charge problems, the one you see here is tempered glass.
Scale wind box 002.jpg
 
Bullen said:
Hi.
I've tried to throw VV133 in my Harrells Premium BR Measure
with different techniques this year but I'm not satisfied with the results.
Sometime I got difference around 0,3 grains.
What's your opinion about that? Is it important for accuracy (0,3 grain)

Anyone recommend the RCBS 750 RangeMaster?

Grateful for advice
Click to expand...

If you are honest with yourself, you will never get to 0.1 grains and stay consistent on any volumetric measure. One of the $450 measures will not do any better than a $150 measure.

The old and obsolete Belding & Mull would come close since it uses 2 chambers to dispense.

A RCBS 1500 Chargemaster and a battery pack will be the best and it comes with a wind shield. If used properly it will get you to the 0.1 grains.

I've used a 1500 Chargemaster since 2005 when they were introduced and never had a problem with the measure, BUT, when high winds are blowing they can be a pain too since you still have to pour from its pan to a funnel.

There are arguments about just how much variation it too much. You will find that about all 1000 yard shooters weigh each charge where many 100/200 yard shooters just dump and go....and still win11
 
Just remember that any and all scales that display to .1gr has an accuracy factor that is probably +-.15gr so the "actual. weight" can be .3 grain difference and still read the same number. The only true way to know for sure is to have a better scale able to discern one decimal point better such as .01grain. Randy J.
 
Thanks for all replies.
This forum is great as always.

I'm not experience enough (yet) to estimate if 0,3 grain is giving bad accurates for my shooting.
Many other things can get wrong too....
But I'm grateful for your opinions.
My thoughts was: why be accurate with hunting and longe range ammo 6XC
and then be satisfied with 0,3 g. difference in Benchrest 6PPC loading.
I guess that longe range shooting have some bigger demands concerning difference in powderweights?

If I choose to buy one scale not to sensitive/wind.
It has to be practical to handle and enough accurate ;-)
What do you recommend "apart from" a battery pack to my RCBS Chargemaster.

Is it possible to buy a battery pack ready for Chargemastern or do you make one by your self?

Thanks
 
There is no commercially available powerpack made specifically for the Chargemaster. But there are lots of simple alternatives just get some battery holders , batteries and a plug from Radio Shack.

Use the search feature, I have read a lot of discussion on this subject on this forum.

Dick
 
Bullen said:
Thanks for all replies.
This forum is great as always.


If I choose to buy one scale not to sensitive/wind.
It has to be practical to handle and enough accurate ;-)
What do you recommend "apart from" a battery pack to my RCBS Chargemaster.

Is it possible to buy a battery pack ready for Chargemaster or do you make one by your self?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Many shooters who use the Chargemaster buy a 500 amp battery booster that has a cigarette plug on the side, then use a Radio Shack adapter that has the same end on it as your Chargemaster. This whole deal is about $50. It will operate a Chargemaster for about 48 hours continuously.

This one below is the most common used.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...tery-Schumacher_6510003-P_N3014_A|GRP2005____

Oops, I don't know about sources in Sweden but the idea will apply there.
 
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Didn't Gary Ocock clean house not long ago throwing charges? Just sayin.......
 
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Bullen said:
Thanks for all replies.
This forum is great as always.

I'm not experience enough (yet) to estimate if 0,3 grain is giving bad accurates for my shooting.
Many other things can get wrong too....
But I'm grateful for your opinions.
My thoughts was: why be accurate with hunting and longe range ammo 6XC
and then be satisfied with 0,3 g. difference in Benchrest 6PPC loading.
I guess that longe range shooting have some bigger demands concerning difference in powderweights?

If I choose to buy one scale not to sensitive/wind.
It has to be practical to handle and enough accurate ;-)
What do you recommend "apart from" a battery pack to my RCBS Chargemaster.

Is it possible to buy a battery pack ready for Chargemastern or do you make one by your self?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Bullen, I suggest the Dillon Scale 0.1 read out + a small piece of cardboard to cover the whole in the plastic cover.
Dillon uses 4 AA batteries.
If you want to go crazy suggest the Adam HCB 123 portable scale 0.01 which comes with a rechargeable battery.
Yes, a piece of cardboard is suggested to cover the hole in the cover. (Windeliminator)
Hope this helps.
Centerfire

If you wan
 
Randy Jarvais said:
Just remember that any and all scales that display to .1gr has an accuracy factor that is probably +-.15gr so the "actual. weight" can be .3 grain difference and still read the same number. The only true way to know for sure is to have a better scale able to discern one decimal point better such as .01grain. Randy J.
Click to expand...

Big time YES...........

Just practice throwing...........WITH............. A .05 or better High Quality electronic scale... You'll get it down to < +-.18gr Bullen...

If ya get a chance to shoot in a proper shooting tunnel......... Try finely weighed charges of .1 increments... Not till I got over .25 +- did I see dispersion of shots....... Though, got many two shot groups to cut each in half with as much as .5 gr seperation....

The wind and tune is what's "getting" you the most............ By Far...........!

cale
 
caroby said:
Just practice throwing
The wind and tune is what's "getting" you the most............ By Far...........!
cale
Click to expand...
That's probably right ;-)
But if I want to do everything I can to be accurate in my reloading, why not test some electronic scale.

"Centerfire": I have read about Dillons D-terminator electronic scale, it seems to be a good alternative?
Simple, flexible and easy to carry but maybee not the most accurate... in comparision to scales like Adam HCB 0,01.
I'm sure it's better with 0,1 grains accuracy than my throwing up and down.

I can guess that the more accurate and expensive scales will take more time to finish weigh and : more sensitive in winds

I grateful for more opinions and advice....
Maybee experience from electronic scales on loading bench.
Thanks

Ps.sry for not so good English but I'm learning :)
 
Boyd Allen said:
I believe that he uses a finer grained powder than 133.
Click to expand...

8208? Yes it's a little finer than 133, but enough to make that much difference?

When you go to a mtch that is runnign only 2 relays, it's awfully hard to clean and weigh out each load.
 
Using 100 throws each with a volume measure is: V133 .4gr heaviest to lightest, old 8208 it is .25 spread. These are the best that can be done that way. A Chargemaster is .17 gr spread with either powder.
 
wayne...ABSOLUTLY.....
right after i got my first lot of new 8202imr..i posted the results...the grain is significantlly bigger than oem 8208, but still more consistant than n133.....
oem 8202 will meter at +/- 0.05 for a 0.1 variration
new imr 8208 will do nearly twice that +/- 0.08...( going from memory..not safe) or so for a 0.16 variation and not the same burn rate as oem
n133 will meter at 0.02 for a 0.4 variration......it just aint consistant...big variartions in gran size.

i posted this on the comp board as soon as i got my first lot of new imr 8208 in, and posted the great metering of the oem8208 on this borad...way back.

i have an mx123 lab scale....most people claiming .1 with n133 do not.....
mike in co
 
jerry..i dissagree...i can do wonders with a harrells and oem 8208....not so with the new 8208 nor with n133...see above....

mike in co
 
Jerry H said:
Using 100 throws each with a volume measure is: V133 .4gr heaviest to lightest, old 8208 it is .25 spread. These are the best that can be done that way. A Chargemaster is .17 gr spread with either powder.
Click to expand...

Guys and gals, you can take that information to the bank. Jerry H as spent many many hours with volumetric powder measures and with accessories he has developed to improve them.

His findings are exactly as the late Dr. Frank Murphy found some time ago, volumetric measures are just really not that accurate if you feel powder quantity is important to the accuracy needed in small capacity cases like the PPC.

Competition benchrest is not a game of "close enough". It is a game of "as close as can be had".
 
OK, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I guess my point was, is there definitive "on paper" difference, meaning target paper? I know, we try to take every variable out we can, try to gain every .001" we can on paper. But there has been an awful lot of matches shot by throwing powder, and good aggs too.

I guess I'll have to look into those glass vials for the 2 relay matches.
 
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Years ago while shooting indoors @100, I found no difference between weighed and thrown charges on the group size. However, if the average of the load was changed by .1 gr it would take a .250 agg to .125 or vice versa. When throwing, dump 5 charges together and weigh it. Divide by 5 to get the average weight thrown. I believe part of the reduction in overall aggs has been due to the availability of smaller clicks. Since the chargemasters spread is smaller it can't hurt and you don't have compensate for powder density changes due to weather variances.
 
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