Point me in the right direction: Case sorting by volume?

W

Wheres_Waldo

Guest
Im getting a bit frustrated with my new rifle and working loads for it, so I've decided to start from scratch.

I had originaly sorted all my cases by weight, but I'm under the impression that sorting by volume, via water is the most accurate way to go about the process.

Whats the easiest way to do this? Do I just use old primers in the primer pocket? Do I have to use new primers?

Anyone have a link to a tutorial?
 
What is the rifle??How is it shooting?? I honestly doubt, if this is a point-blank Benchrest rifle, if case capacity is an issue. Factory rifles??All bets are off.

Mike Swartz
 
First of all, sorting by volume isn't worth a damn unless it's done after all your cases are fully fire formed & final trimmed. Until then, you aren't comparing apples & apples.

Next, it's a somewhat to horribly difficult process, depending on what product you plan to measure the volume of (& therefore what you need to use to make sure that you are measuring the same volume every time). Ideally - here it really becomes a pain in the ass - you should plug the flash hole & primer pocket together, otherwise you could end up with air bubbles holding in flash hole on some, but not other cases.

A friend, wanting to punish himself in this way turned a sort of big based rivet out of Delrin to do the job. The base was big enough to support the case upright, the stem was primer pocket size, or just about & he had a nit's whisker taper on a teat on the end designed to fill the flash hole & seal it.

He used rubbing alcohol to fill his cases, as it was self cleaning afterwards & filled each with a big bore 20cc medical syringe.

Damned if I know if it's worth the trouble.

I used to do quick & dirty tests on cases by filling them with an old lot of BLC-2 I had dropping a fixed overvolume from an 8" drop tube, scraping the top off level. It did weed out the way out size cases, which was about all I found that I needed.
 
seat fired primers, upside down, firmly, no air pocket. 77 degree water, fill tap for air bubbles, and weigh. weigh the empty case first.......dry and deprime when convient.

again if a stock rifle, there are better things to chase first.

is it a first class quality bullet ?

is the bullet correct for the twist, how far from the rifling ?

is it quality brass, or just rp/win fed ???

is the brass all from one lot...if not dont bother.
if you primer pocket ream, inside primer hole deburr, trim to length, fl size all.....then typicall weight sort is good.

buy lapua brass( except for 223) and dont worry.

is the scope any good, mounted solid, the action tight
and on and on and on....

as always we need more info for a good answer....

mike in co
 
prioritize, with this chore WAY down the list, if ever...

Wheres_Waldo said:
Im getting a bit frustrated with my new rifle and working loads for it, so I've decided to start from scratch.
Click to expand...

If your new rifle isn't shooting to your expectations, then first consider far more obvious issues:

Are YOU a good shooter? If not, have somebody who is shoot the rifle to benchmark its current accuracy capability.

Is the rifle properly assembled, with a good barrel? If you're shooting a factory rifle, then I would suggest that determining water volume of your cases is about as productive as determining the water volume of the barrel and the water volume of the trunk of your car, but these latter chores would take much less time.

Is the scope KNOWN to be reliable, and is it properly mounted?

Is your load a proven combination in other (good) rifles?

I can hardly think of a less productive use of reloading time (i.e. water volume determination) except for weighing primers.

Look for obvious and bigger problems. Then look for more of them. :)
 
wind.........

Bill Ohio said:
If your new rifle isn't shooting to your expectations, then first consider far more obvious issues:

Are YOU a good shooter? If not, have somebody who is shoot the rifle to benchmark its current accuracy capability.

Is the rifle properly assembled, with a good barrel? If you're shooting a factory rifle, then I would suggest that determining water volume of your cases is about as productive as determining the water volume of the barrel and the water volume of the trunk of your car, but these latter chores would take much less time.

Is the scope KNOWN to be reliable, and is it properly mounted?

Is your load a proven combination in other (good) rifles?

I can hardly think of a less productive use of reloading time (i.e. water volume determination) except for weighing primers.

Look for obvious and bigger problems. Then look for more of them. :)
Click to expand...


Yes........................And YES.

Don't assume anything........................ Like many state:

"I shoot when there is "no wind""........... Bull, there is ALWAYS wind and "conditions"........ This blows bullets around ALOT...!

Gotta have wind flags.... Of some kind....Just gotta...

Were honestly try'n to help ya out Waldo.... Really.

cale
 
I'll give you my experience in sorting cases by weight. I weighed a set of cases on a calibrated laboratory balance to 0.001 gram, came up with three main groups and a few that were "outliers" to be used as foulers. After fiddling and fiddling I finally lumped the whole works back together. The weight sorted cases shot less well on average than the unsorted cases out to 300 yards from a heavy varmint BR rifle.

For long range case sorting by volume or weight is said to help. I don't shoot long range so I don't know. Out to 300 yards you're wasting your time IMHO. If you know someone who is a good benchrest shot you might have him shoot your rifle just to make sure it's not you.

There are so many things that can produce poor groups that it would be nearly impossible to list them all. As others have said it's likely not due to inconsistent case volume.
 
Thankyou

For all the quick, competent replies. I realize a lot of deatails are required to give an honest opinion on the matter.

Heres the situation in its entirety.....

The rifle is a custom built tactical 300 wm based on a trued 700.
Lothar Walther 26" 1-10" with muzzle brake.
Shilen trigger
Skim bedded by the smith who produced it.
AICS 1.5
SAAMI spec chamber
ETA: NF NXS 5.5-22 x 50
Badger base and rings
All torqued to spec, and checked frequently

The rifle is in my mind capable of superb accuracy for a tactical build, as I personally have shot, and posted on my fridge, and went back and couted 2 minutes ago, 13 5 shot groups in the .3 MOA range at 220 yards with the bullet/powder/brass/primer combination I'm using right now. The problem is I have alot of time on my hands, and rediculously meticulous reloading techniques take up alot of time which saves me money and keeps me out of trouble. The question is will it improve my accuracy?

Components....Lot of Lapua brass, Lot of R-P brass
H1000
CCI 250 LR Mag
208 A-Max

Capability F/L and neck size with Bushing neck die
neck turn and remove doughnut
True pockets and flash-holes
measure run out...ect

I have all the equipment to sort via water volume...or alcohol volume....
 
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I had decided to weigh my cases to sort them and always felt that in order to find case capacity, thats what needed measuring. A case can weigh different if the rim is thicker or thinner,etc., just too many variables that affect weight that might not be in the capacity of the case.

So, I took my cases and weighed them on a scale, and then filled them with ball powder and weighed again. I ended up with .1 powder capacity for every .3 change in the actual weight of the case. This was with Lapua .223 brass that had been fired 7 times.

Ball powder is easy to measure case capacity with and then you can sort cases however you wish. Eliminate it as a variable and you wont need to question it again. You could even test a mixed batch just to prove it to yourself.

Some of the things I do, I cant actually prove make my groups smaller, but it makes me feel better knowing that I have done everything I can to make it better.
 
Total waste of time. That is unless you have a lot of time to waste. At least it will keep you out of the little lady"s hair and out of beer joints.
 
Wheres_Waldo said:
The problem is it wont do it consistantly.
Click to expand...

if it wont do it consistantly ...look for the problem...dont make one up.

i have norma brass and it does have a weight spread of about 2 gn in 100 cases.......so could a lite one in with 4 heavy ones cause a flyer.....i do not know.

examine the data on where/when you get flyers. mark the case of a flyer shot.

get better bullets....production bullets seldom give match performance.

did you weight sort the bullet? base to ogive sort ?

of the top i would guess the bullets

mike in co( still collecting parts for my 300 wm lr rifle)
 
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