Fellas, if you will, please bare with me. I have'nt had alot of time to research the forums about airifles, so am pretty ignorant on the subject. I lost all of my benchrest rifles in a fire last year, along with ALL of my reloading equipment for centerfire benchrest and F-Class. As you can tell, I'm starting from scratch with a clean sheet of paper. I'm interested in airifles. They seem to be as accurate as rimfire BR guns, and may be more in line with my finances at this time. I have two criteria for a new start. (1) must be accurate to 50-75 yards (or 100 if reasonable). (2) Must be able to be a secondary hunting rifle. We have hogs and coyotes on the property (25 acres), and would like to reduce any unwanted sound. I don't know if there are suppressors for air guns or not. I need an education on these subjects. I will spend what time is available to research when I can, and would like to know if there is any books, or written literature about airguns that would help educate. Thanks in advance. waynej
New To Airguns..
- Thread starter waynej1
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Wayne Burns
Guest
Well, Welcome Waynej,
You might want to narrow your goals... and or define what you mean in terms of group size at the desired distance... and how many foot lbs at the target, YOU think is necessary to take your quarry. Coming from the center fire world, your expectations might be different. Since this is a bench rest forum and the highest class fpe we allow is Open which is up to 35fpe... not enough to take those game in my opinion... this might not be the best place for this kind of advice.
Personally, I'd use my 336 Marlin in .45LC for such things at those ranges, and get an Air Arms EV2 for the LV 12fpe and under class, and or a FWB P70FT for the HV up to 20fpe Class.. at the upper end of the scale of costs.. and a .177 cal Marauder at the lower end of the cost scale which could be tuned for any and all classes we play.
But, there are some who hunt with air guns, that are mostly custom built, that only get a few shots at 300-400 fpe but I doubt they go out to 100 yards with even half that, but it might do the job with a well placed shot I guess... but then you can't use that rig for bench rest in the games we play here.
Crosman and Evanix both have a new semi auto air rifle for hunting, but I don't know much about em.. There is another forum called the "Yellow" where you will find different pages that focus on such things.. even a Crosman page I think
Anyway, I think you need two rigs at least to have fun with air guns
Again, Welcome to air guns, but I'm sure sorry to hear about the loss of your other BR equipment in the fire.
Wayne Burns,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
You might want to narrow your goals... and or define what you mean in terms of group size at the desired distance... and how many foot lbs at the target, YOU think is necessary to take your quarry. Coming from the center fire world, your expectations might be different. Since this is a bench rest forum and the highest class fpe we allow is Open which is up to 35fpe... not enough to take those game in my opinion... this might not be the best place for this kind of advice.
Personally, I'd use my 336 Marlin in .45LC for such things at those ranges, and get an Air Arms EV2 for the LV 12fpe and under class, and or a FWB P70FT for the HV up to 20fpe Class.. at the upper end of the scale of costs.. and a .177 cal Marauder at the lower end of the cost scale which could be tuned for any and all classes we play.
But, there are some who hunt with air guns, that are mostly custom built, that only get a few shots at 300-400 fpe but I doubt they go out to 100 yards with even half that, but it might do the job with a well placed shot I guess... but then you can't use that rig for bench rest in the games we play here.
Crosman and Evanix both have a new semi auto air rifle for hunting, but I don't know much about em.. There is another forum called the "Yellow" where you will find different pages that focus on such things.. even a Crosman page I think
Anyway, I think you need two rigs at least to have fun with air guns
Again, Welcome to air guns, but I'm sure sorry to hear about the loss of your other BR equipment in the fire.
Wayne Burns,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
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shadowalker
Guest
Wayne, please contact me. I am in Gilmer Tx looking for Air rifle BR shooters. Have both 12 and 20 ft lb guns and a tube for testing. I am not far from you and would like to meet. Wyane has given you very good advise on guns to get.
Contact me @ 903-734-3667
Sorry about your fire.
Frank Tirrell
Contact me @ 903-734-3667
Sorry about your fire.
Frank Tirrell
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BobZ
Guest
Wayne1,
We are located in Pearland, Texas and we are shooting benchrest most every Sat and Sunday. Start is usually around 11:00 sometimes till after 4:00 we hae three active shooters there most days. Please take a trip and you can shoot several very accurate rifles. I have a 30 ft lb Theoben, and a NJR at 20 ft lbs. and Ev-2 at 12 ft lbs and a starter rifle the Hammerli Pnuema which is adjustable in power level. We also have Field Targets and Silhouette targets. We have one shooter with the New TM1000. Several of these guns are for sale. I think you need to consider two rifles. The Hog Hunters are into much higher power and 45 cal. or 9mm, I have a portable bench. If you have a wooded area you may want to host a Field Target Shoot I have some targets. We also shoot AAFTA Field Target Matches in Somerville, Texas I pass the turn off to your town on the way to Dallas. I think you are little less than 100 miles from Houston. Somerville is much closer for you. A couple of shooters there have riifles up to 45 ft lbs. That is a once a month shoot.
713-680 1329
Bob Z
We are located in Pearland, Texas and we are shooting benchrest most every Sat and Sunday. Start is usually around 11:00 sometimes till after 4:00 we hae three active shooters there most days. Please take a trip and you can shoot several very accurate rifles. I have a 30 ft lb Theoben, and a NJR at 20 ft lbs. and Ev-2 at 12 ft lbs and a starter rifle the Hammerli Pnuema which is adjustable in power level. We also have Field Targets and Silhouette targets. We have one shooter with the New TM1000. Several of these guns are for sale. I think you need to consider two rifles. The Hog Hunters are into much higher power and 45 cal. or 9mm, I have a portable bench. If you have a wooded area you may want to host a Field Target Shoot I have some targets. We also shoot AAFTA Field Target Matches in Somerville, Texas I pass the turn off to your town on the way to Dallas. I think you are little less than 100 miles from Houston. Somerville is much closer for you. A couple of shooters there have riifles up to 45 ft lbs. That is a once a month shoot.
713-680 1329
Bob Z
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therealld
Guest
"They seem to be as accurate as rimfire BR guns,"
Within the contest of Airgun Benchrest shooting, the top rimfire guns are significantly more accurate than airguns. While 250's at 25M is still fairly rare outdoors with airguns, they would be commonplace on the same target and distance were top target rimfire guns to be used. As the distance grows, the gap widens, and at the 75-100 yard distance you desiring, you would for sure be better served with a decent midpriced rimfire using middling target ammo, but frankly, few serious coyote or pig hunters would select the .22 rimfire as a firstline choice for real hunting, preferring centerfire guns.
Not to say you can't hunt with an airgun, but here what I have seen. Airguns suitable for conventiaonal target shooting are not powerful enough for truly sportsmanlike hunting on anything but small game, say up to jackrabbit size. A decent sporter type airgun of around 30fpe in .22 cal can deliver regular hits on a quarter at fifty yards, and a fifty cent piece at 75 yards with good compatible ammo, light breezes, and an experienced shooter, but even headshots on a pig beyond slingshot ranges would be, to me at least, pretty marginal unless the animal is asleep.
Though the groups airgunners tout at longer ranges is decent, and often possible, the effect of wind is significantly more than on a rimfire bullet, so first shot hits at a distance (esp were the distance is a guestimate, is much harder for airguns).
Moving up to a higher power .25 cal airgun, say 60fpe, will give slightly more latitude with wind doping, and might extend range on coyotes and very small pigs to perhaps 25yds if the shot is perfect, but then the cost of ammo begins to equal that of rimfire stuff, and the volume of air being used begins to get disappointingly high.
As the airguns get larger, say .30Ca and higher, it seems the AVERAGE practical accuracy they produce becomes less, and to me, I would doubt any of them are accurate enough (as a class) for decent hunting beyond 60 yards no matter HOW much energy they have.
Within the contest of Airgun Benchrest shooting, the top rimfire guns are significantly more accurate than airguns. While 250's at 25M is still fairly rare outdoors with airguns, they would be commonplace on the same target and distance were top target rimfire guns to be used. As the distance grows, the gap widens, and at the 75-100 yard distance you desiring, you would for sure be better served with a decent midpriced rimfire using middling target ammo, but frankly, few serious coyote or pig hunters would select the .22 rimfire as a firstline choice for real hunting, preferring centerfire guns.
Not to say you can't hunt with an airgun, but here what I have seen. Airguns suitable for conventiaonal target shooting are not powerful enough for truly sportsmanlike hunting on anything but small game, say up to jackrabbit size. A decent sporter type airgun of around 30fpe in .22 cal can deliver regular hits on a quarter at fifty yards, and a fifty cent piece at 75 yards with good compatible ammo, light breezes, and an experienced shooter, but even headshots on a pig beyond slingshot ranges would be, to me at least, pretty marginal unless the animal is asleep.
Though the groups airgunners tout at longer ranges is decent, and often possible, the effect of wind is significantly more than on a rimfire bullet, so first shot hits at a distance (esp were the distance is a guestimate, is much harder for airguns).
Moving up to a higher power .25 cal airgun, say 60fpe, will give slightly more latitude with wind doping, and might extend range on coyotes and very small pigs to perhaps 25yds if the shot is perfect, but then the cost of ammo begins to equal that of rimfire stuff, and the volume of air being used begins to get disappointingly high.
As the airguns get larger, say .30Ca and higher, it seems the AVERAGE practical accuracy they produce becomes less, and to me, I would doubt any of them are accurate enough (as a class) for decent hunting beyond 60 yards no matter HOW much energy they have.
don carter
New member
Hi Bob Z, We just shot out first benchrest match with Dennis at Emeral Empire in Eugene, Ore. area. Great fun, looking for two benchrest type rifles prefer 20 fpe .177 cal. What do you have for sale? Looking for quality shooters. Don and Sandy
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BobZ
Guest
LD,
I intended only to quote the first line of your post. As a general statement do not agree. If you add, at long ranges, I would agree. In terms of accuracy not related to Hunting many agree that a minute of angle is a minute of angle at 10 meters or 1000 meters. The greater the distance the bigger the 10 ring. There may be some terrific Center fire and rim fire groups out there but a .009 5 shot ctc group at 25 yards would stack up pretty well as would other groups many air gunners have fired. Your post focused on Wayne's Hunting interest and I am sure is completely accurate. Most any decent air rifle will do 1/2 inch ctc at 50 yards and as you know a well designed and set up rifle such as the USFT will shoot much tighter groups.
Very good post.
Bob
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BobZ
Guest
The only personal guns I would consider are both out of your requirements. The Theoben MFR is a 30ft lb open Class and a production class rifle Hammerli Pnuema (good gun for the class). My personal choice if I could find one would be the P70 the Oregon guys do so well with. I know nothing about Sandy and her shooting skills but if she has the right rifle and the super natural skills that many women bring to the shooting sports we might be in for a WhoopN'. I am a dealer for airguns give me a call at 713 680 1329.
I lived in Oregon for a couple of years in the 70's and Sail Boat Racing was my thing back then. Two things I did not like was the swift current in the Columbia River and the rain.
Bob
I lived in Oregon for a couple of years in the 70's and Sail Boat Racing was my thing back then. Two things I did not like was the swift current in the Columbia River and the rain.
Bob
Thanks guys for the response. I'm not sure what to do now. I was hoping to find out it would be a little bit easier to be able to hunt with an air gun, but doing more research, it looks to be quite an ordeal. The television show I saw last year, sometime, did not really go into detail about the rifles, equipment,ect. The reason I mentioned the accurracy I did, is to make humane shots as possible, and of course benchrest shooting. I am just starting to understand the fpe (or so I think). I appreciate the invites to come to the ranges. I'll try to contact some of you when I get a chance soon.waynej
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therealld
Guest
Bob,
I saw quite a few rimfire guns being fired in practice, AND they were shooting at 25M same as us airgunners, while at the World Airgun BR match last year, I had opportunity to observe a goodly number of their targets during the same practice sessions we were doing.
BELIEVE IT! On the same line some distance and time as us, it was VERY clear the rimmies were more accurate than the airguns!
Zim, ACCURACY is NOT groups! Its placing your first shot where you need, then doing the next on the next bull etc etc. Yes, I too have shot some nice groups with airguns as well as rimfires, but for sure it was clear in SC last year that the rimfire equipment was more certain than the airguns under identical conditions. How often would we get the chance to compare the top shooters from both disciplines at the same time and place?
I have shot a ton of lead from airguns at fifty yards, and know what they can do. I also have owned and fired decent rimfire guns, and seen much better ones in use by others ... I truly am amazed you even hold the position you do!
For SURE, airguns are accurate, and I have seen many over the counter rimfire rifles that my airguns could outshoot at near any distance out to 100 yards and more ... but when you get to GOOD rimfire guns, even some sporters the story changes.
I saw quite a few rimfire guns being fired in practice, AND they were shooting at 25M same as us airgunners, while at the World Airgun BR match last year, I had opportunity to observe a goodly number of their targets during the same practice sessions we were doing.
BELIEVE IT! On the same line some distance and time as us, it was VERY clear the rimmies were more accurate than the airguns!
Zim, ACCURACY is NOT groups! Its placing your first shot where you need, then doing the next on the next bull etc etc. Yes, I too have shot some nice groups with airguns as well as rimfires, but for sure it was clear in SC last year that the rimfire equipment was more certain than the airguns under identical conditions. How often would we get the chance to compare the top shooters from both disciplines at the same time and place?
I have shot a ton of lead from airguns at fifty yards, and know what they can do. I also have owned and fired decent rimfire guns, and seen much better ones in use by others ... I truly am amazed you even hold the position you do!
For SURE, airguns are accurate, and I have seen many over the counter rimfire rifles that my airguns could outshoot at near any distance out to 100 yards and more ... but when you get to GOOD rimfire guns, even some sporters the story changes.
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cris
Guest
Hopefully, one of the things we can agree on is that rimfire benchrest is different than air rifle benchrest. A 40 grain bullet is much heavier than most .22 caliber pellets and the velocity of those bullets is greater.
Recently, I have had the opportunity to shoot with a relatively new rimfire shooter with absolutely high end equipment, something north of $5k. He shoots on an ARA target at 50 yards and poor me has to shoot an air rifle on the international target at 25 meters. We score the other's target. It has become a very competitive affair.
The one thing that we both take away from our experience is that air rifle benchrest has come a long way.
While the rimfire game is much more mature in terms of equipment and shooter skills, air rifles and their shooters have only recently been asked to produce the accuracy, and it is not groups, that the international target demands. 2 years ago, no one had shot a 250 on that target. The first 250 was recorded in qualifying last year by Joe Friedrich and Dan Brown amazed the world with one in LV at the 2011 World Championships. Yes, equipment has progressed by leaps and bounds but, more importantly, our shooters are more adept at the basic skills of reading conditions and the other nuances that rimfire shooters take for granted. As our shooters get better and we put better equipment in their hands, like actions, triggers, barrels, optics and real benchrest stocks, scores will improve. Check back here in 20 years and maybe we will have a better answer to the question, what game produces the best accuracy.
Recently, I have had the opportunity to shoot with a relatively new rimfire shooter with absolutely high end equipment, something north of $5k. He shoots on an ARA target at 50 yards and poor me has to shoot an air rifle on the international target at 25 meters. We score the other's target. It has become a very competitive affair.
The one thing that we both take away from our experience is that air rifle benchrest has come a long way.
While the rimfire game is much more mature in terms of equipment and shooter skills, air rifles and their shooters have only recently been asked to produce the accuracy, and it is not groups, that the international target demands. 2 years ago, no one had shot a 250 on that target. The first 250 was recorded in qualifying last year by Joe Friedrich and Dan Brown amazed the world with one in LV at the 2011 World Championships. Yes, equipment has progressed by leaps and bounds but, more importantly, our shooters are more adept at the basic skills of reading conditions and the other nuances that rimfire shooters take for granted. As our shooters get better and we put better equipment in their hands, like actions, triggers, barrels, optics and real benchrest stocks, scores will improve. Check back here in 20 years and maybe we will have a better answer to the question, what game produces the best accuracy.
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Wannebe
Guest
I think one shouldn't compare. Nice for braging rights between mates after a Sunday shoot, but that is where it should stop.
I also agree that Airrifles have come a long way. 2 years ago there were a couple of us shooting 100m indoor and everyone was laughing at us untill they saw the groups we were shooting. Now we have a dedicated annual competition with big sponsorships, people fighting for a spot, etc.
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charlesasmith
New member
Wayne - Give Airguns of Arizona a call and ask about killing coyotes
with what caliber. I have witnessed a one shot 124 yd kill (lazered) of a rock chuck. Granted a coyote is a tougher animal. However, the new .25 cal and, just out, a .303 cal AG may be quite capable of your hunting interests. The .303 is not cheap and likely over your budget. But give it a try.
Chuck Smith
with what caliber. I have witnessed a one shot 124 yd kill (lazered) of a rock chuck. Granted a coyote is a tougher animal. However, the new .25 cal and, just out, a .303 cal AG may be quite capable of your hunting interests. The .303 is not cheap and likely over your budget. But give it a try.
Chuck Smith