New grizzly "south bend heavy ten"

M

martin zuck

Member
Recieved grizzly's new catalogue today and was looking over their version of the SB H10. They look like a nice machine at a reasonable price but share no features with the original. Under "optional accessories" I thought they would offer a taper attachment but that was not the case. I have taper attachments on both of my old SB H10's and would be lost with out them. I guess one of the advantages they do have over the old style is that you don't need to use your oil can as much.
 
Isn't this the old equivalent of false advertising? I mean if I took the Cadillac nameplate and put it on a cardboard box and tried to sell it as a Coupe DeVille qould that not be ethically wrong?
 
here is mine.




Just got the lathe set up and dialed in. So far I really like it. The 3 phase motor feels very smooth. The built in VFD is a great idea. I think I will really enjoy it. Lee




Been working on my flush system for the heavy 10 as well. almost done. Just a few more fittings and some hose. Lee



Quick question. On the original heavy 10, is the half nut next to the thread dial or is it to the left and down low? On the new version of mine. the half nut isn't next to the thread dial. I really wish it was. This feature will take some time getting used to. On my big 16" lathe the half nut is directly next to the thread dial and very easy to get to. Lee
 
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Dusty
They do. However the stand is nothing more than a flimsy welded sheet metal stand. To boot it cost 1350$. I figured I could do better than that, and I think I did .
Although my stand isn't perfect, it actually does better than I thought it would. I plan on pouring two concrete slabs and bolt them on to each end of the stand. That alone will add 2 or 300 pounds. Maybe more depending on how I form them up.
When the new shop is finished, I think I will go ahead and bolt the stand to the concrete flour. That will help a bunch.
I prefer to chamber kinda like Gordy does, and with the barrel in the headstock as pictured, the run out doesn't seem to influence the machine. I was worried It might.
One other thing I may do for the time being. I may weld a dead man from the stand, and then bolt the other end to the 6x6 wooden post directly behind the lathe. That will control the shake if I encounter any. I really feel good about the hole thing.
I know several of the original SB heavy 10 owners will not like this machine based on principle alone. I will say however, this may not be much like the original but it is a darn fine machine . I can feel the difference between this Taiwanese made unit compared to the china made lathe I own. I really like my big machine, so I was really impressed with this little unit. Time will tell the real story. Lee
 
Your stand is loads better than some ive seen for sure. I have a heavy 10, sb13 and a jet 13x40. I find myself using the jet more than anything simply because of the geared head
 
Dusty
I was really looking at buying another jet, when I bought this heavy 10. I started out on a jet belt drive, and I thought I needed something better. I miss that machine. Depending on how much room the new shop has when everything is moved in I may buy another. I love playing with lathes, and I have found that I have a real ability doing so. I really enjoy them. I sometimes say, I like my lathes as much or more than my rifles. to close to call. I guess I really like the fact that they go hand in hand with each other. Lee
 
skeetlee said:
Dusty
They do. However the stand is nothing more than a flimsy welded sheet metal stand. To boot it cost 1350$. I figured I could do better than that, and I think I did .
Although my stand isn't perfect, it actually does better than I thought it would. I plan on pouring two concrete slabs and bolt them on to each end of the stand. That alone will add 2 or 300 pounds. Maybe more depending on how I form them up.
When the new shop is finished, I think I will go ahead and bolt the stand to the concrete flour. That will help a bunch.
I prefer to chamber kinda like Gordy does, and with the barrel in the headstock as pictured, the run out doesn't seem to influence the machine. I was worried It might.
One other thing I may do for the time being. I may weld a dead man from the stand, and then bolt the other end to the 6x6 wooden post directly behind the lathe. That will control the shake if I encounter any. I really feel good about the hole thing.
I know several of the original SB heavy 10 owners will not like this machine based on principle alone. I will say however, this may not be much like the original but it is a darn fine machine . I can feel the difference between this Taiwanese made unit compared to the china made lathe I own. I really like my big machine, so I was really impressed with this little unit. Time will tell the real story. Lee
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Skeetlee, Don,t pay much attention to my opinion as I'm just an old coot set in his ways who only uses high speed steel and has grown used to my antiques. When it comes to metal removal your machine, with more power and angular contact head stock bearings, will out perform the older machines. Especially with carbide tooling. From my standpoint the main advantage of the old machines is that they are so darn user friendly. A few years before "south bend lathe works" went under they were making a geared head lathe similar to yours. At the time they sold for less than the classic H10 but in some respects were more lathe. At that time an old timer by the name of Ralph Deske who had worked for SBL for many years told me that they were selling around 30 H10's a year and that they had achieved more of a cult status at that point. He also told me that they were the only machines still being made "in house" at that point.
So I think you probably have a very nice lathe but having said that I'm not about to give up my old H10's.
 
Martin
Tanks for the info. I understand you not wanting to give up your original SB. I wouldn't give mine up either had I owned one.
I did finally get a chance to chamber a barrel on my new machine. I was impressed with the machines performance. here is what I accomplished. enjoy. Lee

 
skeetlee said:
Martin
Tanks for the info. I understand you not wanting to give up your original SB. I wouldn't give mine up either had I owned one.
I did finally get a chance to chamber a barrel on my new machine. I was impressed with the machines performance. here is what I accomplished. enjoy. Lee

Click to expand...

Real pretty! Do you use an indicator or are your reflexes a lot faster than mine?
 
I threaded this one pretty slow as it was the first time on the new machine. I really don't like where the half nut is, but I suppose ill get used to it. Either get used to it or build some type of lever system or linkage to get the half nut in a comfortable position.
My big 16" grizzly will not cut threads as nice at the speed I used to cut these on the heavy 10. I was impressed. Lee
 
a few more mods

A good dear friend of mine gave me the idea of adding some weight to my newly made Lathe stand. We discussed using sand and oil. The sand and oil would also work as an harmonic dampener. However, I am stubborn and a long time concrete guy, so the choice was simple. So I simply took some 2x4 and formed out some weights for each end of the stand. I took the forms over to the redi mix here in town, and my buddies hooked me up with some leftover crete. A couple days later and I have the weights at home ready to mount. well almost ready. One weight went on almost as planned, the other needs some work. I think im going to cut all the bolts out and hammer drill some new holes. Nothing lines up on the tail end. No big deal, just a little more work on my end. Anyway here you will see the idea in its basic state. I don't know exactly how much weight this will add, but I am guessing around 250 pounds. Maybe I should have used 2x6 for the forms?? Hell who knows I just might yet?? We will see. Lee




 
Lee,

A few things to consider. Added weight can only help, but if your intention is to reduce harmonics then they really need to be able to flow directly into the mass you are adding for maximum benefit. By the picture it looks like you have rubber pads between the lathe bed and the frame you built. This will tend to isolate many vibrations to the lathe rather than letting them flow into the frame. The same thing would happen with a weight suspended on rods like in the picture. None of this matters though if you are not taking cuts that cause problematic vibrations. It's likely fine the way it is for the work you will be doing.
 
PS: Oil and sand will not act as a harmonic dampener in the way you would think that it should. Your vibrations start at the cut, then are transferred to the lathe bed. Think of the machine vibrations like waves in water in a bathtub. The waves will travel back and forth within the tub because they are isolated by dissimilar materials with different natural frequencies. You want your lathe vibration to get away from your cut and out of the machine so ideally you want everything the lathe is connected to to be able to transfer the vibration waves at the same frequency as your lathe bed. Rubber, oil, sand, etc. will not serve that purpose. If your lathe bed were touching concrete or cast iron, it would be like making your bathtub a hot tub and if it were bolted to the floor it would be like making your bathtub a swimming pool. For the travel of harmonics anyway.

I think earlier Jerry mentioned steel weldments were tried in CNC machine tools and it was a very bad idea. What happens is the weldment itself will vibrate at a much higher frequency. Just tap the side of it with a hammer and you will hear it. I can't back it up with numbers right now but my belief is the vibrations generated by the cut set up a higher frequency resonation in the weldment and transfers some of that back to the cut. Essentially amplifying it. I don't mean to be the wet blanket here. Your frame looks very nice and will probably serve you well as is but if you are trying to add value to the setup, just follow your ears with a tiny hammer to tune it in.
 
Joe
I appreciate the info very much. The rubber between the lathe and the stand isn't going to stay there I don't beleive. When I first got the machine mounted I tried to make a couple cuts on a piece of scrap and I was getting terrible results. I was at a loss as to why. We tried everything to control it. That's why the rubber is there. After trying everything I could think of, it came to me. Maybe the bearing in the headstock is loose. Sure enough that was the issue. After I adjusted the bearing all is well. Actually I am very satisfied.
The lathe and stand just don't weigh much so I figured why not add some more weight. I figure it can't hurt anything.
When I get all done I'll remove the rubber from under the machine and see how the lathe react. I will relevel everything and go from there. Thanks for the info joe. I enjoy reading stuff like this. Lee
 
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I did a little research and came across this, as well as the results of experiments that indicated that adding oil to coarse sand improved damping as compared to sand alone. http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1084&context=meng_fac
My thought was to fill the tube frame with a coarse sand oil mixture to take away its tendency to ring. Particle damping has been extensively written about.

A number of years back, I suggested that Sims Vibration Laboratory offer their Deresonators (rifle barrel vibration dampers) with IDs large enough so that they could be used on larger diameter barrels. They did, and sent me a couple for evaluation. The effect that they have on the ringing of a free floated barrel is remarkable, reducing a "ting" to a thud. There are a number of kinds of damping materials that are commonly used for such things as quieting sheet metal panels in car bodies that might be used to advantage as well. One such product comes with a heavy aluminum foil outer layer that should simplify maintenance for applications where that is an issue.

Added a little later: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_damping
 
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