goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
After reading a recent thread on here about using N133 for fertilizer because it is finicky and hard to tune etc., I thought I would post some findings I had last week at the Cactus. I was going to keep this to myself as I figured those who actually shoot GROUP BR already knew this and those who don't would probably find something to gripe about instead of admitting they just don't know how to tune a 6ppc. But I then realized, that there are people out there who are honestly trying to learn about this sport and are, instead, reading about how to make ripe, red tomatoes and really deserve to know the truth about n133.
The truth is, N133 is a fantastic powder for the 6ppc. It might not scratch the itch in a 30br, but that is a different cartridge. It isn't made for N133 any more than a ppc is made for H4198. Now you can probably get either to work in both cartridges but not ideally.
I have tried many powders in the 6ppc. Benchmark, H322, N133, Rl10x, and H4895 to name a few. I have never had the pleasure of working with 8208 or the T powders. I have offered to "try" some, but couldn't find anyone willing to donate a bit to the cause of scientific study(or for me to just have fun with!) So out of the powders I have tried and the ones which you can actually get, N133 is the best I've found in the broadest spectrum and in the most varied conditions.
So, last week, I headed down to the cactus early to get out of the icebox where I live and to work on a couple of barrels. I arrived Tuesday afternoon and began shooting first thing Wednesday morning. I set up my Oehler 35 on bench 60 and left it there in the same spot for three days without touching it. I fired many, many groups (almost fired enough to run out of bullets before the match even started) over the chrono in temps from 55 to 80 degrees in two different ppc barrels with two sets of brass and three different lots of N133. You can imagine the combinations! And per my notes, I fired all the combinations possible. This barrel with that lot, and that brass with that lot in the other barrel, and so on and so forth. ANd to make a long story short.........they all worked fine!
The first lot of N133 was from 2007. The second lot was from 2002. The third lot from 1999.
Barrel one: 53.5 clicks/2007 lot=3354 fps. I repeated this load numerous times and recorded 3346, 3357, 3339 average velos for this load.
Then I switched to the 2002 lot, same clicks. Velos were 3340, and 3355.
Then 1999 lot same clicks, same barrel. Velos were 3341, 3333, and 3336.
Standard deviations ranged from 2 fps to 13 fps throughout. Not too bad. Three lots separated by 8 years and only 22 fps difference in them from high to low. The averages were much closer.
Then I repeated the same stuff on day two (thursday) and day three (friday) and the numbers stayed almost identical. I did also try other loads besides 53.5 clicks and actually found that 52.5 clicks gave the best groups and similar deviations. The average velocity on that load dropped to 3296 but was drilling "ones" at 200 yards for three shot groups when the pilot watched his flags closely.
So Friday afternoon, I cracked out a different lot of 220 russian Lapua brass and ran some numbers on it. As far as I can tell, there are three years difference in the lots of my two batches of brass. I ran 53.5 clicks with both batches and one gave averages of 3344 and the other was 3339. So brass was almost interchangeable. In fact, it would have been except for the fact that I wanted to keep them separated as the new lot is new and the old lot has been used for over a year.
Then I wanted to try some different primers but ran out of time.
Oh well, maybe next match week.
Bottom line, N133 is consistent from lot to lot, it is consistent from day to day, and it is proportionate in it's velocity increases with temperature. If it's finicky to you, then you'd better beg or steal some 8208 from somebody or quit yer complainin'!
Incidentally, I used the 52.5 click load the entire match from morning to afternoon, both days and it was doing exactly what it had been doing three days prior. I think somedays we blame the powder for our problems when in fact, the load was fine, we just weren't watching the darn flags.
The truth is, N133 is a fantastic powder for the 6ppc. It might not scratch the itch in a 30br, but that is a different cartridge. It isn't made for N133 any more than a ppc is made for H4198. Now you can probably get either to work in both cartridges but not ideally.
I have tried many powders in the 6ppc. Benchmark, H322, N133, Rl10x, and H4895 to name a few. I have never had the pleasure of working with 8208 or the T powders. I have offered to "try" some, but couldn't find anyone willing to donate a bit to the cause of scientific study(or for me to just have fun with!) So out of the powders I have tried and the ones which you can actually get, N133 is the best I've found in the broadest spectrum and in the most varied conditions.
So, last week, I headed down to the cactus early to get out of the icebox where I live and to work on a couple of barrels. I arrived Tuesday afternoon and began shooting first thing Wednesday morning. I set up my Oehler 35 on bench 60 and left it there in the same spot for three days without touching it. I fired many, many groups (almost fired enough to run out of bullets before the match even started) over the chrono in temps from 55 to 80 degrees in two different ppc barrels with two sets of brass and three different lots of N133. You can imagine the combinations! And per my notes, I fired all the combinations possible. This barrel with that lot, and that brass with that lot in the other barrel, and so on and so forth. ANd to make a long story short.........they all worked fine!
The first lot of N133 was from 2007. The second lot was from 2002. The third lot from 1999.
Barrel one: 53.5 clicks/2007 lot=3354 fps. I repeated this load numerous times and recorded 3346, 3357, 3339 average velos for this load.
Then I switched to the 2002 lot, same clicks. Velos were 3340, and 3355.
Then 1999 lot same clicks, same barrel. Velos were 3341, 3333, and 3336.
Standard deviations ranged from 2 fps to 13 fps throughout. Not too bad. Three lots separated by 8 years and only 22 fps difference in them from high to low. The averages were much closer.
Then I repeated the same stuff on day two (thursday) and day three (friday) and the numbers stayed almost identical. I did also try other loads besides 53.5 clicks and actually found that 52.5 clicks gave the best groups and similar deviations. The average velocity on that load dropped to 3296 but was drilling "ones" at 200 yards for three shot groups when the pilot watched his flags closely.
So Friday afternoon, I cracked out a different lot of 220 russian Lapua brass and ran some numbers on it. As far as I can tell, there are three years difference in the lots of my two batches of brass. I ran 53.5 clicks with both batches and one gave averages of 3344 and the other was 3339. So brass was almost interchangeable. In fact, it would have been except for the fact that I wanted to keep them separated as the new lot is new and the old lot has been used for over a year.
Then I wanted to try some different primers but ran out of time.
Oh well, maybe next match week.Bottom line, N133 is consistent from lot to lot, it is consistent from day to day, and it is proportionate in it's velocity increases with temperature. If it's finicky to you, then you'd better beg or steal some 8208 from somebody or quit yer complainin'!
Incidentally, I used the 52.5 click load the entire match from morning to afternoon, both days and it was doing exactly what it had been doing three days prior. I think somedays we blame the powder for our problems when in fact, the load was fine, we just weren't watching the darn flags.
Last edited: