Lathe set up

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old#7

Guest
Hi all, Great forum.
I am new to machine work and have a question about setting a lathe up.
I bought a Precision Matthews 14x40 lathe recently with gunsmithing as the intended use. I also am building a new shop structure to house tooling.
My question is ... What would be the best way to mount the lathe to the floor. I am a tall guy and would like to raise it up about 4 to 6 inches to save my back. I haven't poured the concrete floor yet and was thinking of making an embed plate with welded rebar attached to it and place it in a thickened portion of the slab around 12" deeep. The embeded plate would also have (4) pieces of 1.5" threaded rod that would support a .75" base plate with adjusting nuts for leveling. This plate would be at each end of the lathe.
Will this work or is there a better method for ridgidly attaching the machine to the floor?
 
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Several people here have raised their lathe. I raised mine 5". I don't think they "bolt" it to the floor though, I didn't. It weighs enough to keep it from scooting around!
 
This is a thread on some riser blocks that Brian did to get his lathe up to a good working height

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=209005&page=2

thLeveling3.jpg
 
Ditto on the riser blocks.
I used 3" round stock on my Clausing.
My 14X40 Clausing is on a 4" slab. Most new 14" lathes are not much more 2200 lbs. Not that heavy. Invest your money in tooling, not concrete and steel.



Dave
 
I turned 4" diameter risers for my lathe, and when I friend wanted to do the same on his new lathe I looked around in a few scrap metal bins and came up with diesel engine pistons. They are HEAVY walled aluminum and a good 5" in diameter. Just clean-up the top of the piston on the lathe, and they made perfect risers. I prefered those over mine as they have a much larger footprint and are stable with just the rim contacting the floor. Placed a piece of heavy rubber workbench cover under each one and they are solid.
 
Just curious on the effect raising a lathe 5 inches or more has on the utility of a foot brake. The pictures provided show the brake attached to the lathe and raised as the lathe is raised. My lathe doesn't have one so I can't comment from experience. But it would seem that it might be easy to miss the brake if you have to raise the foot/leg that much in a hurried situation.
 
I have a foot brake on my lathe but have never used it. Most don't have them and you kind of don't remember its there.
 
adamsgt said:
Just curious on the effect raising a lathe 5 inches or more has on the utility of a foot brake. The pictures provided show the brake attached to the lathe and raised as the lathe is raised. My lathe doesn't have one so I can't comment from experience. But it would seem that it might be easy to miss the brake if you have to raise the foot/leg that much in a hurried situation.
Click to expand...

Yes, that has been bugging me. Adding a bar to the now elevated brake is on my actual to do list, not the fake to do list my wife approves :D
 
I posed this question a few years ago. Don Nielson suggested that I get a concrete saw and cut a trench in front of my lathe.
Butch
 
Ten Years on Wood Blocks

Sir, your idea is supreme over-kill! I too am taller that my 14x40 lathe and 10 or 11 years ago I raised it with 4x4 wood blocks and leveled it up again with an ultra sensitive precision level. This lathe in not bolted down, its much too heavy to need tie down. It remains precisely level and has never changed even though its has been used a lot including some heavy cuts. The wood blocks help soak up vibrations too! Just the facts! You fix it the way you like it, and be sure to take some machine work classes. Some things should not be learned the hard way. Good luck.
 
Barrelsaver said:
Sir, your idea is supreme over-kill! I too am taller that my 14x40 lathe and 10 or 11 years ago I raised it with 4x4 wood blocks and leveled it up again with an ultra sensitive precision level. This lathe in not bolted down, its much too heavy to need tie down. It remains precisely level and has never changed even though its has been used a lot including some heavy cuts. The wood blocks help soak up vibrations too! Just the facts! You fix it the way you like it, and be sure to take some machine work classes. Some things should not be learned the hard way. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I do not claim to be an experienced machinist but I am a very experienced wood worker. Wood expands and contracts on a regular basis. It also crushes under weight.
What I am trying to do is create a ridgid base so I can level across the total length of the bed. If that means I need to introduce a little stress in the bed to acomplish it than so be it. I read that when the bed is ground it is clamped perfectly level and paralell to the grinder. The key word is clamped.

I have talked extensively with a local inspector that made his living setting up machine shops. In fact he set up PacNor's machine shop. Thats where I came up with the idea. I do agree that the lathe will probably not bounce around due to it's weight but putting it on wood is not stable.
 
Old 7

I own a pretty good size shop, (machine wise), where we have machines all the way in size of a 10" EE Monarch to a 56 inch swing 40 foot long LeBlond NR. None are "bolted down".

But, if you wish to bolt it down, there is nothing that it will hurt.

In reality, it is more difficult to get the "twist" out of a small machine than it is a really large one. That is, if there is any inherent "twist" machined into the bed. I doubt there is.

A 4" concrete slab, with re-bar, is quite sufficient for a small lathe such as you have. But then again, if you want more, that will not hurt anything either, except it will cost a bit more..........jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
I own a pretty good size shop, (machine wise), where we have machines all the way in size of a 10" EE Monarch to a 56 inch swing 40 foot long LeBlond NR. None are "bolted down".

But, if you wish to bolt it down, there is nothing that it will hurt.

In reality, it is more difficult to get the "twist" out of a small machine than it is a really large one. That is, if there is any inherent "twist" machined into the bed. I doubt there is.

A 4" concrete slab, with re-bar, is quite sufficient for a small lathe such as you have. But then again, if you want more, that will not hurt anything either, except it will cost a bit more..........jackie
Click to expand...

Thanks,
I am new to machine work but I have always wanted to do it right the first time. I appreciate the advice that is given.
What are you using to level your machines? I did see some "feet" in the grizzly catalog today that are adjustable with a hard rubber base. They claim to hold alot of weight.
 
Old 7

On our smaller machines, (less than a 8 ft long bed), we use a precision Starret Machinist level. After we get the bed level as we can and all of the twist removed, we then finalize it by taking a cut. Sometimes you have to tweak it a little to get the machine cutting as straght as it should.

We are fortunate in that several of our lathes have adjustable headstocks. This is a big help in getting the thing cutting correctly.

The last thing we do is set the tailstock so the lathe also cuts straight between centers.

On our larger lathes, (we have a 18 ft American, a 28 ft LeBlond, a 33 ft Lemann, and the 40 ft Leblond), we use a precision Starret Transet to shoot the lathe in length wise at each support, and a level at each support to get the twist out. Often we will also have to teak the headstock a tad to get the lathe cutting straight at the chuck end.

All of these lathes are on massive concrete pads, but when you have a lathe that weighes over 120,000 pounds, and you load another 25,000 pounds in it, you need good support.

As heavy and massive as these machine appear,they are really quite flexable.Sometimesit is difficult to realize that the machine is not aslevel asit shouldbe untillit starts doing funny things.........jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
I own a pretty good size shop, (machine wise), where we have machines all the way in size of a 10" EE Monarch to a 56 inch swing 40 foot long LeBlond NR. None are "bolted down".

But, if you wish to bolt it down, there is nothing that it will hurt.

In reality, it is more difficult to get the "twist" out of a small machine than it is a really large one. That is, if there is any inherent "twist" machined into the bed. I doubt there is.

A 4" concrete slab, with re-bar, is quite sufficient for a small lathe such as you have. But then again, if you want more, that will not hurt anything either, except it will cost a bit more..........jackie
Click to expand...

What would you suggest for leveling a lathe.
Maybe the method I was thinking about is more than I need but I don't want to do it twice and also I don't want the initial set up of the lathe to be the cause of future problems. I can spend a few extra $ now to avoid spending more money in the future.
I am learning as I go and I do intend to take some classes and/or get some good instruction and appreciate all of the responses. You guys have way more experience than I do and I am open to any and all suggestions.
I am currently self employed and understand the importance of doing things right the first time.
I am hoping to make gunsmithing a means of income in years to come. I know the government won't take care of me and I don't want it to.
 
Rad Mrdal said:
Only a brainless ape can make recomendation comment like this. Pal, spend the extra few $$ on a proper steel reiforced concrete pad and you'll never look back. Rad
Click to expand...

Brainless ape. Maybe we'll meet some day.

Then I guess my superior skills as a rifle builder overcame that flimsy 4" slab my shop sits on.

I let my rifles and my customers do the talking for me.

Pal,What a crock of crap.


Dave
 
Rad Mrdal said:
Only a brainless ape can make recomendation comment like this. Pal, spend the extra few $$ on a proper steel reiforced concrete pad and you'll never look back. Rad
Click to expand...


Steel reinforced concrete will move just the same as the soil moves underneath. The earth's funny that way ;) Ask any machinist that’s ever worked in the San Francisco Bay area. Steel moves with simple temp changes, do you really think your proposal is superior to those that are listed above. If so, please feel free to elaborate in detail, we all wait with anticipation of your superior knowledge :rolleyes:
 
old#7 - I bought a heavy (just over a ton) Jet 13x40 four years ago and moved it into my attached 3-car garage/shop. I helped Dad form & pour the slabs for the floor in this garage, so I know they're only 4"-5" thick; we used steel mesh for reinforcement, which is much lighter than rebar. I had to re-level the Jet several times during that first winter, but the floor eventually settled to the point where I only needed to tweak it a bit with the changes in seasons. The last couple of years, it's checked out nearly perfect with an 98-8 Starrett machinist's level, with no adjustment needed.

This past fall, I started shopping for another lathe, and wound up purchasing a PM1440HD, which is nearly identical to the Jet, but weighs about 2500lbs. I set it up back-to-back within 20" of the Jet, which of course resulted in causing the Jet to move as the floor settled to accomodate the new lathe. I'd have been better off putting it farther away from the Jet, but my mill takes up the next bay over, so this was the best spot I could come up with. The floor seems to have settled already, as the last time I checked both machines with the level, they were spot on.

However, I'm more concerned with vibration than whether the floor will hold the lathes level. If I were doing it over, I'd have rented a concrete saw, cut out an area for two lathes, and dug down far enough to allow pouring a fiber-reinforced concrete pad about 10" thick. This would address my concerns about vibration.

As far as raising the lathe goes, I know what you mean about saving your back. After several hours of standing over the Jet while doing a barrel, my back feels somewhat strained. The PM sits just enough taller so that back strain hasn't been an issue. Or maybe it's just that I'm more relaxed while threading & chambering as I've gained experience, and it was tension that caused most of the back strain? Whatever - both these machines have foot brakes, and since I learned on them, I'm used to having the brake. I'm using the brake on the PM on a regular basis, as I've got it set up to cut metric threads. I'd hate to do anything that would make it harder to hit the brake in an emergency.
 
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